PKI will own Columbus next year... and it could be worse

I live about 45 minutes from PKI. I also buy a Gold Pass there every year, and constantly visit. I must say, Cedar Point's staff needs to cheer up, BIG TIME! PKI's employees are so much nicer than CP's. I do enjoy PKI along with CP, but PKI has unique rides that CP really lacks. Like The Beast, Delirium, and Tomb Raider. Another thing, there are ALOT of rides at Cedar Point that guests of "extreme" size can't ride. That's almost not an issue at PKI. You see more people get out of lines with their heads down cause they couldn't ride then you do at PKI. At PKI, they have little shelves were riders can put stuff they brought on with them, at CP they don't. This just piss's me off because if they don't notice your carrying something on a ride at CP, they make you get out of line after waiting like 30 minutes to two hours, at PKI you can put that thing on a shelf and reclaim it after the ride. They also have sign that say they aren't responsible for lost articles on the ride.

That's just my 2 cents... :P *** Edited 8/15/2004 2:26:58 AM UTC by Huggy Bear***

CP doesn't have storage area for stuff on rides? Last time I checked plenty of rides have storage bins/shelves for loose articles.

About the whole employee friendliness thing, I think that is very subjective and time sensitive. You could catch a few bad or good apples at a park any day: some people have good days, then bad days. Plus, one person's version of "friendliness" may differ from another's. I've seen a fair share of friendly and rude employees at both PKI and CP...

From my name, I'm originally from Cincinnati area and I have been to PKI many more times than CP.

I have not had a chance to go this year. I was doing stuff that prevented me from going.

PKI has always had a good kids area, even before Paramount bought Kings Island. It has kept up with the times and it shows. An example is a ride that is now the Scooby Doo ride. When I was a kid, it was a Smurf ride. I remember riding it and loving it. My brother and I would get off and run around and ride it again. After it was becoming super old, probably about the time that Paramount bought the park, it was transformed into a haunted house ride. Now, it is the Scooby Doo ride. They also have the Beastie which was the first "hardcore" coaster that I rode. It's a very big coaster for the target demographic. Since Viacom owns Nickelodeon, and also Paramount, they have cashed in on the Nickelodeon stuff. There is an area that is basically a smaller water park, mainly for kids. It incorporates the crazyness that is associated with Nickelodeon. It's kind of irked me a little about some of the transformation. One of my favorite rides, the single drop log flume ride was transformed from the Kings Mills Run to like the Wild Thornberry's Wild Ride. Also, the double log flume, which was great as well, was destroyed to make room for Tomb Raider. That's more of a personal irritation.

As for the food, I so love LaRosa's pizza. I like the cheese they use on it as well as the sauce. It's just great. There just seems to be less of a selection at CP comparitively.

For the storage bins at PKI, almost every ride has space for loose articles. If they don't the ride ops are nice enough to hold it next to the exit and keep an eye on it. I have seen both ends of the niceness spectrum at both parks. It just depends on the person and the day they're having. A person who has a bad day will probably be a little irritated.

One thing that I like about PKI is their TVs they have all over the place. If you're by yourself, which I do go sometimes by myself, it's something to distract yourself besides holding a 3 way conversation with yourself (something I have done). They do get annoying sometimes because it's the same things over and over, but if you don't go every weekend, it's good. I've seen it used as a PA system as well. There have been children who have gotten lost. The people controlling the TVs will stop the feed and announce a lost child and usually they have a digital camera so they can take a picture of the child. I've seen this only like twice but it's still very nice.

For those of us who are GOES, there is a lot more choice for rides compared to CP. Many of the older rides were made by Arrow and a local business that has since gone out of business. This basically means that the rides have big boy seats. I can fit on basically only Magnum, Gemini, and the yellow car on Mean Streak. At PKI, I have basically free run of everything except for Face/Off, which I don't like anyway, and maybe Flight of Fear since they switched to lap bars from shoulder harnesses. Other that, I can ride on anything.

On my final subject before I step off my soapbox, atmosphere and viewability of the rides. PKI likes the forests it has. Many of the rides main tracks are obscured by trees. An example is Beast. It's a 5 minute ride but you can't see any of it beyond the initial hill. Or Adventure Express, which is a fairly intense mine ride.

One reason though that PKI has a lot of success may stem from the fact that they have Timberwolf. For those who don't know, Timberwolf is PKI's ampitheater. Concerts are played there fairly often. When I worked at PKI, I would sell stuff at the concerts. The concerts were usually packed, even the Christian rock bands.

Two things I'd like to see in NE Ohio (at CP, GL or otherwise) is Noble Roman's Pizza (based out of Indianapolis) and La Rosa's Pizza (based out of Cincinatti as mentioned in this thread). I love the pizza from both these franchises and you just can't get it around here.

We used to have Noble Romans in the Canton area (2 full size sit-down locations includinga great one at Belden Village I used to go to all the time as a kid that had running old cartoons projected on the wall, a classic Asteroids machine and you could watch them make pizzas through an observation window). Their deep dish pizza was better than any deep dish style pizza I've had before or since and the primary thing I miss; it was like ULTRA cheese flavor and used some special cheese blend and was WAY better than their round pizzas for some reason). You can still find some Noble Romans "Pizza Express" stands in bowling alleys and what not that have little single-serving sized round pizzas, but I haven't seen a full sized sit-down location since the Belden one closed (the one by the old Mellet Mall closed before it). I hear they're huge in Indianapolis and have some locations in Dayton and anyone can start their own franchise location for a flat fee so who knows, maybe they'll return some day. I've often thought about quitting my current job and opening my own location. :)

Meanwhile, La Rosa's sauce and cheese (as mentioned again by King Island) is fantastic (I think they use Provolone intead of Mozzarella and I used to bring up giant kitchen sized cans of their sauce when I came back to make my own pizzas as close as I could to theirs). Too bad they haven't made it very far out of Cincinatti yet. I'd take that over Papa Johns any day. Cedar Point could do a lot worse than to ditch Macaroni's and get a full blown La Rosa's location there instead. :)

Darn, I must be really hungry for pizza.... A trip to PKI is sounding REALLY good right now. :)

I think CP's big problem is themeing. The big thing in the big parks like PKI, Universal, and of course Disney, is the themed rides. Themed rides are much more appealing in my opinion. That Italian Job Ride was very neat looking.

It would be cool seeing a giant animatronic Iron Dragon in the middle lagoon thing at the end of the ride. The rememing is very important in my opinion. Look at the ride signs in other parks. They are big...and they have a lot of detail. Millenium Force's is just big letters, and TTD's is well...okay.

Wicked Twister has a nice entrance, but the actual entrance into the queue is off to the side... kinda odd.

Many other rides lack a proper sign at the entrance of the ride. My biggest complaint...Magnum. I always thought the entrance was near the exit area until I was brave enough to ride. It's only marked with one of those signs they have at every ride.

I think the CP staff is friendly enough. I think it is the atmosphere that needs a change. CP's placement of small things like ride entrances make a difference. My first time to CP this year (first time I choose not to pick up a map), I did an "oh, there it is" many times. One was with Mean Streak. You take that little vacant path to get to the entrance to that ride.

I think CP needs to bring back the Pirate Ride, but make it awesome...and give it a new name. They need to theme a coaster...more than just a little fog and an announcer on TTD.

Walt what is your opinion on this topic? I must say I'm shocked to hear of all these complaints. Many of them seem a bit petty from my perspective and I could make the same argument for just about every park I have visited.

I guess I'll just stick to the other parts of this site and avoid all the negative stuff. I used to come to Virtual Midway to visit the park when I couldn't be there.

It seems like every site on the internet has just become a place for people to rant and rave about everything that is wrong and all of the injustices of their lives. Most of which are quite insignificant. There are people all around the world or are living in war zones, who are starving, who have no shelter, are being oppressed by brutal governments and here we are bitching about an auto-speil, an amusement park being too concerned about safety (horror of horrors), the lack of quality pizza places and the like. Give me a break. Go ahead and flame away, I have said my piece and won't be responding any further.

Thanks for listening,
Matthew J. Lydy

Captain, sir, you make many valid points. Don't run away from them so fast.

MrScott

Yes, the Captain is right. We're being WAY too negative discussing theme parks. We should be more like a Cedar Point cheerleading team or something. Here goes...

Hey guys! Cedar Point was SO awesome yesterday! I mean like I totally rode the Iron Dragon and it was WAY cool! For sure! It was the most unbelievable moment of my life! When it creeped over those 10 chain-lifts and went almost 5 mph down those little mole hills I thought I thought I was going to soil my pants with excitement!!! When that gnarley dude at the Millennium Force queue told my phat friend she was like totally gargantuan and couldn't ride after we waited a mere 200 oh-so-short fun packed minutes, I told her, "Hey! No worries Bertha! Here's some money. Go get some cotton candy and I'll be back in a few minutes!" She was so way cool about it and gave the staff members there a special salute as she left the station! I was like, "Wow! Is that a secret signal Bertha?" I'm not sure why she looked at me funny, but that's cool. I rode Millennium Force! I Rode Millennium Force! It was SO AWESOME! Like totally mondo cool man! Cedar Point is SO Amazing! Next week we're going to Jogga Lake and it's gonna be FUN! I know cuz some rad dude on the TV told me so! They played the MOST AWESOME theme music in the world too! I was like Brittney has nothing on this! Anyway, it's been totally rad talking with you guys here today!

I have never been to PKI, so it would be difficult for me to make a comparison between services and features of the two parks. I'll leave that comparison to people like Jeff and RideMan who visit both parks.

I see that PacDude is back with his old arguments that A) we bash people who don't say nice things about Cedar Point. This very thread is one of many that shows the theory is incorrect. We only bash people who can't back it up :) ... and B) that Cedar Point is only concerned about records and the rest of their business suffers. I showed, in detail, why that couldn't be further from the truth in previous threads. I don't need to bring that up again.

The Columbus market is important, but that swing audience will not make or break Cedar Point. Because they essentially market to different locations (for the most part), PKI's attendance will not explode at the expense of Cedar Point's. If Cedar Point sees a decline (outside of factors like weather), the park can only look in the mirror for the reason. And I wouldn't necessarily agree that Columbus is a lost cause for Cedar Point in 2005. Not only do we not know what Cedar Point has in store for next year, Cedar Point has many advantages over PKI (resort experience, etc.).

I think Jeff's concern about emphasis on safety is valid. We went round and round with the "1 inch rule" back in May, but having 1" of slack doesn't make the ride safer. I know that this directive came from Intamin, but I have to think that Cedar Point had at least some say. The recorded warnings on lift hills, which you can hear on the ground, but not the ride itself, are pointless. The fine print at ride entrances is meaningless to the typical guest. I would guess that defeats the purpose, unless the purpose is to be able to provide some type of legal protection.

On the flip side, I don't see the atmosphere as much different this year as previous seasons. That's a good thing, because it's the atmosphere that sets Cedar Point apart from the crowd. I will disagree with rathofdoom: Cedar Point is not a theme park and lack of a theme is not the problem. Cedar Point is the kind of place where I can spend the afternoon without riding a single ride and still have a great time. That has not changed.

My experience with service in food operations has been fine, certainly not any worse than other years. Donut Time, Famous Dave's, and Game Day Grille are all excellent additions to Cedar Point and I don't think those places have gotten near enough praise. Cedar Point isn't going to solve its food problem in one season, but I think it's improving nicely.

*** Edited 8/15/2004 10:19:08 PM UTC by Walt***

It's interesting to note that up until about 1975 the bulk of the food operations were run by concessionaires. Interstate United ran the majority of the stands and the sit down resturaunts, with CP next followed by Coffelts Candies and Berardi's. That year they bought out UI's contract, and the next couple of years Coffelts and Berardi's. Now it seems to be swinging back to outside operators. I'm not pointing fingers at anyoneor anything, just an observation.

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Captain Matt said:
Go ahead and flame away, I have said my piece and won't be responding any further.

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Well good because you didn't really say anything in the first place. People complain about things they care about, and I have to think that the people that visit this site care about the park. Cedar Point fans, of all people, get criticized for being blind fanboys all of the time. Now you want to peg us for the opposite reason? Whatever.

I guess what this thread has made me realize is that overall it's the negativity I feel at the park, and that isn't policy as much as it is the attitudes of people and decision makers. That's unfortunate.

I don't mean to say that it's all gloom and doom, but the vibe is on the decline, and I can't be the only guest out of 3 million to notice it. The focus on excellence is sorely lacking, and they need to find it again.

You're such a fun guy to talk to, Walt. But I really couldn't care less what you think. I'm not here to debate with master debators. It's a waste of time. I'm here to give opinions and have fun. What are you here for?

Well I haven't really been up to the point much perhaps about 5-8 times max. Yeah pass holder here. Out of those times half has been to just hit Friday's on the beach with friends and say screw the rides. I have 0 rides on MF, 2 on TTD around 10ish on Raptor the same for magnum and that's about it. Anyway what I'm getting at is I am seeing more dicking around at CP instead of fun also when comparing it to say 4 years ago. Well now we have to make sure people fit into MF right, we have to make sure the big coat rack is running. Surprisingly as of late people are saying it has been running nice.

But more so the courtesy/policies is a bit down, it's kinda like "yeah we know we have the biggest and best park so suck it up" attitude. I do like what PKI is doing more so then CP for additions, they know what creativity is instead of "hey build us the biggest....and can we have a few extra pumps with that (pun intended)".

Nice comeback, PacDude.

Good to hear from another fanboy, Hooper. I'll agree with the, "We're the best, deal with it," attitude. Didn't Stop Still Dragster bust another cable yesterday?

The only real decline I've seen has been a surprising inefficiency in getting rides loaded and out of the station this year. Blue Streak is stacking way too much, as is Corkscrew and Mantis.

The flat rides are not being run as efficiently either. It seems to take forever to load Witches Wheel, back in the eighties that ride ran like clockwork. They filled the staging area of the queue with riders, who had assigned seats. The actual loading process was much faster, now it takes so long to lock people in. What happened?

I haven't seen any difference in the friendliness of the workers compared to past years. Some truly stand out as being great, like the ladies that work the resorts gate in the morning. I haven't seen any problems with TTD's crew, such as the yelling, etc. that has been mentioned. I don't like the auto spiels, a part of CP has always been enthusiastic PA anoucements at the rides.

I've seen a nice improvement in the sit down restaurants at the resort. The kitchens at TGIF and Famous Dave's are turning the food out quickly, which was a problem at TGIF in the past. I've had nothing but very friendly wait staff at the park's restaurants and bars this year. They also have upgraded various aspects of the operation, such as cloth napkins at even the Breakers Coffee Shop. I'm very pleased with the sit down restaurants this year, both in the food quality and the wait staff.

I do think CP needs a ride like Italian Job, CP's record breaking coasters seem to intimidate a number of people. A nice family ride would be a good complement to rides like TTD and MF. Though it doesn't have to be a coaster, a well done dark ride would be great.

And I agree with the flat ride situation, CP needs some of the newer flat rides that are on the market now.

The announcement and subsequent release of the simulation for The Italian Job served its purpose for me: It got me excited for the ride and a possible visit to the park next year. I have never been to PKI before and considering not going to CP just to try another park. I consider CP my second home park after KW, but I feel like I'm "spent" at CP. I've been going there for over ten years, and while I could ride MF or Maggie anytime, I just feel a little disenchanted towards the park as a whole. When TTD was announced, I thought it looked pretty fun, but I didn't follow the construction as much as MF. And when I couldn't go last year and when the cable broke in July during my only visit this year, I wasn't that upset I haven't rode TTD yet.

Perhaps it is the atmosphere. KW just has a niche to it, from the shade to the food. It was the first park I ever experienced the joy of rides and coasters. I ended up working there and met the greatest girl ever. Aside from those memories, its the atmosphere and unique collection of rides and food that always brings me back, no matter what.

I suppose CP is like a Super Wal-Mart and parks such as KW or Holiday World are like the corner supermarket.

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I'm here to give opinions

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So maybe we just should have an closed forum where people give their opinions and no one responds to them? A place where all opinions go unchecked?

We're here to debate and discuss. That's what a discussion forum is. Don't get mad at me if some of your opinions can't stand up to a little scrutiny. I didn't agree with everything Jeff wrote, but you didn't see him come back and say, "I'm just giving my opinion!"

I'm not sure if it snapped another cable. I could see it happening though. I don't really bother keeping up to date with it much more. I was down south this (last) weekend. [sarcasm] come on pointbuzz update the news section and tell us if dumpster broke another cable [/sarcasm] ;)

Yeah you know Jeff were just the CP fanboys that think CP can do no wrong ;)

There is nothing wrong about someone have criticisms of that which they really love. That is the case with Jeff and Cedar Point and on some levels I can see where he is coming from.

On my one and only trip to the Point this year I saw various degrees of the good and the bad. On the bad side the service we got at Famous Dave's was atrocious. I chalked this up to the restaurant being new but the full time employee we dealt with was surprisingly ignorant of our concerns. We saw our share of personality-less ride ops and those that seemed to be put off by the very fact we were there.

But, we also saw some employees having a real good time. Even though our service at Famous Dave's was terrible the food was the opposite. I was impressed with the facility as well...something I rarely say about food service at any park.

This year saw a "perfect storm" for the people in operations. After all the TTD problems last year they thought they had it licked going into this season but more problems came up. They lost important staff to the rushed opening of Geauga Lake. And, of course, there was the situation with the ride restraints. When your full time staff has to concentrate on two rides out of a park with almost 70, you can see where some other things might be overlooked.

These are not excuses, rather explanations. The bottom line is that you don't pay any less to get in this year than you did last year and the service and experience should be no less important.

I don't see this as bashing on Jeff's part. Jeff's love of Cedar Point is second only to my love of Disney and I can be Disney's harshest critic at times.

But, complaints and disappointments on the part of your biggest fans should serve as a giant wake up call.

I would like to think of myself as a Cedar Point fanboy, but I must agree with Jeff on his initial post.

While I'm not a "Cedar Point" expert, I've been going to the park long enough to see the changes from 'Old School' Cedar Point to the paranoia that we see today.

I like to go out to the park after work about once or twice a week. On occasion I'll bring a friend with me to go ride rides. My friends aren't so much of a *hardcore* enthusiast as much as I am, but they do love the park. However, this year I've seen a common theme from their reactions: What happened to the FUN Cedar Point?

I think we're starting to see that view from the GP that visit the park. A lot of people I've talked to miss the old character signs, the live spiels, and the capacity that the park used to have. While these things may seem insignificant, the average park guest remembers those fun things about the atmosphere. Some of my friends I've taken to the park with me are beginning to liken Cedar Point to cattle herding. It's not a fun job to do, but you get the cows into the pasture and then back to the barn and your job is done.

I think because of the new policies enforced this year its beginning to make the work environment stressful on the employees. However, I'm not an employee and I'm in no position to make that assumption, this is purely an observation. But seeing the employees shout to the customers, giving out all these instructions in the same manner with NO charisma is where I can see that Cedar Point is just becoming another cattle farm.

I do know one thing and that is King's Island has my money for 2005. I'm impressed with how the park has been changing itself since my first visit in 2001. I admit, a lot has to do with the enthusiast events held out there, because they can really show off their customer service. As far as operations goes, it could use a little bit of improvement. But I'm more willing to wait in line for a quality (not quantity) ride that has reliable uptime than a record breaking ride that is down every hour.

I think if Cedar Point decides to not build number 17 for 2005 that we are going to start seeing a different Cedar Point. Frankly, I think number 16 should be *working* more consistently before we see another coaster.

~Rob Willi