Parking pass windshield policy!

Fraud method #1 is 100% preventable, so I don't buy that as a reason. Basically, CP is saying they can't hire good employees, so they have to make their job fool-proof.

Fraud method #2 is just plain bunk. I doubt anyone does that. You can't walk outside the toll plaza anyways.

So, yeah, I still don't see any fraud in their old system.

TTD is sinking too! said:
If someone develops a cure for cancer, then "a few short years" later makes it unavailable for no good reason, would you likewise be "confused" when people started complaining?

Not the same thing, not even close. They took the existing system and added on an additional perk. For most of its short life, it even cost extra to have that perk. The park decided the privilege was causing more trouble than it was worth, so the program was ended. It's not any more complicated than that.

It's costing them a bunch, with little or no benefit in return. That's why it's controversial. Anyone with some common sense can see what a dumb move it was.

they really don't need to give people additional reasons to stay home.

Actually, anyone with some common sense would see that the facts and research that went into the decision aren't known. It's really easy to be an armchair amusement park operator when you use emotion and ignore the experience behind the decision. I know some feel that attendance problems are caused by stacking trains, short seat belts, and poor parking policies, but the economy really is the biggest part of that picture.

Honestly, with the reactions here, you'd think they have removed the cure for cancer. Outside of Dave, everyone here must be new parking pass holders. There were no pitchforks and fire demanding the perk before it was offered. It was an added privilege that is no longer offered. Some of you are convinced of doom and gloom, but neither your personal feelings or anecdotal evidence factor into the equation.

Method #2 was observed this summer by a member of this very forum.

Then CP has sh!t employees. If they don't see someone walking from the parking lot out to the toll plaza to get in another car, then they have bigger issues. Still, I can't see a ton of people doing that. I'm sure people give free refills on Pepsi in the park too. A couple exceptions aren't going to kill the profit of a park. But, a widespread problem will.

Uhm, have you seen the lines at 9:30 in the morning on a Saturday? It would be very easy for someone to walk back around and into another car.

Now, they could easily post security or something to watch for it, but there is enough traffic moving through that someone could sneak out and into another vehicle.

The one issue that escapes me about all this is that fraud is the likely culprit. I mean, exactly how widespread could abuse of the system be? For instance, if it happens 20 times per week, you're looking at less than $4,000 in lost profit, which doesn't seem like a deal-breaker, to me, especially when you consider how much they make on a half-full parking lot at $10/car.

And perhaps I'm speaking out of ignorance when I suggest that 20 violations per week seems like a very high estimate.

I'm with Dave on this. I also hated the stickers before they went to portable pass. Having to scrape it off every year was a pain. I got to the point where I left it on and made them take it off for the new one.

Someone mentioned friends can use car with sticker. That's a great point. What's the difference in you going with different friends all season to get free parking, and loaning your car to friends. I did this a few times. I had friends I trusted with it (of course, it wasn't a new car). I would say, "here, take my car. You Get free parking with it"

If it was the hearse, you could make a game out of it. "Here, drive this to Cedar Point. Just be careful, I don't know what's in the casket in the back, but you'll get free parking!" :)

Then, you could put a fake body in the casket and make it move while they're driving and really creep them out.

-Josh

Walt said:
I'm still confused at how something that was added as a perk only a few short years ago can become so controversial when it's no longer offered.

Perk? Aren't perks generally free? I recall paying $15 extra for that "perk," and like Dave, it's the only reason I bought Joe Cool. I've always hated the stickers as well.

If fraud was indeed the problem, I agree that the problem was with their employees. I visited the park dozens of times this year, and I would hold up my pass and the tolls worker would barely look at it. So now they want to slow down the entire process with these ridiculous stickers for the first several weeks of the year, and inconvenience honest customers because their employees weren't properly trained? That's pretty stupid.

How do I know the system can and should work? Look no further than Geauga Lake. I have no idea what they were doing, but they would physically take your pass at the tolls, disappear into the booth for a while, and then come back out with your pass and a parking ticket. Obviously you can't beat the system that way. So what stops Cedar Point from doing the same thing?

My guess is that CP gets more traffic than Geauga Lake. So, they want to just wave people through the gates by glancing at the massive parking sticker on the windshield.

A perk doesn't have to be free. That's what Joe Cool is - paying for perks.

Given the volume, I can't see how the Geauga Lake solution is better than glancing at a parking sticker.

Well, that solution is certainly no worse the solution for non-passholders.

But how do you answer the fact that the Paramount parks already had technology in place to actually scan the passes at the parking gate, and now that is being eliminated and they're going to the parking pass. Why is CF so afraid of embracing technology?

Maybe instead of using the Peanuts characters, they should start using the Flintstones since they're so intent on living in the stone age.

*** Edited 11/20/2006 7:32:34 PM UTC by Mark Small***

Fraud Method #1

Person A gives season pass with parking permit to person B who uses it to park in the lots because the parking attendant didn't pay close enough attention to see it wasn't them on the pass.

Fraud Method #2

Person drives car A through tollbooth using pass for free parking then parks in the back of the lot. Gets out of car A, walks back out of tollbooth area and gets into car B and uses pass for free parking again

Moving to stickers won't stop either of these problems.

Method #1 = if employees aren't looking closely at the pass, they probably won't look closely at the sticker. A computer-generated label will probably work just as well.

Method #2 = they'll simply drive in, drop the people off, drive out and pick up the next group and drive in, getting the free parking again. The parking lots along Rt 250 might be packed next year! Someone should start a business to continuously shuttle people in using their parking pass. All you need is a cardboard sign "Don't pay $10 to park, I'll get you in for $5" and you'll be a millionaire by year end.

Parking stickers don't solve any of the real (or perceived) problems, they only give honest patrons another reason not to go.

In fact, in the case of method #2 (assuming that even happens,) stickers probably make that "fraud" easier (employees would almost certainly notice someone walking out of the parking lot. They probably won't take note of a car driving out though.)

^ You bring up a really good point. There's always a way to get "around" a system if you really want to. From a business perspective, though, you shouldn't be implementing "solutions" that negatively impact your paying guests. You should implement those changes on the business side because you should be able to control your own employees.

So, if fraud really was the issue at hand, CP should have implemented internal changes to prevent such fraud. Causing inconveniences to guests (regardless of how many guests think its an inconvenience) is a last resort - or at least SHOULD be a last resort.

I think that CP's popularity has a great deal to do with their reputation being spread by word of mouth. They need to be careful that the same method that made them so popular could also have the opposite effect. If enough people think its not worth it anymore, they'll tell their friends.

Granted, I think they're FAR from becoming a place I would stop visiting. But, I don't think they're making the best decisions lately. Something as simple as ticketing and parking should be the LEAST of their worries.

You're assuming that they haven't looked at all other possibilities. How do we know if they haven't already tried implementing employee policies to little or no effect? It could be they've tried non-customer-impact policies and none have curbed the problem that they are seeing. So they are left with reverting back to stickers.

And I have to believe that for every one instance that is witnessed or caught, there are X number that aren't.

TTD is sinking too! said:
Moving to stickers won't stop either of these problems.

Parking stickers don't solve any of the real (or perceived) problems, they only give honest patrons another reason not to go.

It's always been a sticker system! They aren't moving to it to solve a problem. The sticker has always been the primary method of issuing the pass. They are doing what they have always done, only taking away the added bonus of having the option on the pass. If this is changing your plans for next year, then you either have only had a parking pass for a few years, or have a short memory, because this is the way they've always done it.

In fact, in the case of method #2 (assuming that even happens,) stickers probably make that "fraud" easier

It happened right in front of me just a couple of months ago. I'm not naive enough to believe I was there the first and only time it happened.

Technology is a legitimate argument/complaint here. But without the technology, what may have been a good arrangement for you is obviously not a good arrangement for them. The reaction is way out of proportion with what has actually happened.

JuggaLotus said:
You're assuming that they haven't looked at all other possibilities. How do we know if they haven't already tried implementing employee policies to little or no effect?

I don't need to know! Why, with my personal feelings, pseudo-math, and my degree in Amusement Park Operations from Enthusiast University, I have all the answers! :)

*** Edited 11/20/2006 8:11:04 PM UTC by Walt***

Walt, my point is that fraud can't be the issue, and if it is, their solution won't solve it (might even make it worse.) The same sorts of tricks that were used with passes can be used with stickers.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And if you do try to fix something that ain't broke, at least don't make it worse.

Cedar Point is 0 for 2.

Anybody here ever have to sit in line behind a car paying cash and asking qustions at the toll booth? I know it's the workers job to be friendly and courteous to incoming cars, but it can never take longer to look at or even stop season parking pass holders than the cash parking customers. [Unless Stevie Wonder is at your toll booth]

Then just take the "back" entrance from the chausee. I've never had to wait behind even one car at that entrance in the 15 years I've been driving to the Point.