No more Cotten Candy for 25 cents!

We always eat our main meal at Midway Market. It seems expensive but it much more of a deal than buying a few burgers on the midway. My son and I can eat for under $25 and it is all you can eat and they really have some good selections. We usually get some smaller things (Lemon smoothie yumm) throughout the day.

The thing is, they tried the "lower prices to make more money" angle. At least after one season, it doesn't seem to have worked. Attendance down slightly, per-cap revenue was flat, if I remember correctly.

That's not getting it done. Granted, the new attraction last year was "minor", but still.

I suppose you could argue that they need more than one season for the word-of-mouth to take effect. And, you could be right. But, it's clear that the Powers That Be believe they tried something new, that it didn't work, and so now they are back at business as usual.

As for Resorts: Chief, you know I am no fan of CP Resorts. They are "resorts" only in the loosest definition of the word. But, they remain at very high occupancy. It doesn't matter if my family cuts back a night or two, as it would appear others are willing to take my place.

On the other hand, did anyone else see the Castaway Bay offseason prices advertised in this year's brochure? I think they were $140 or so, and that's a bargain. I stayed there last year for $150 on a Saturday in mid-December. That was a great deal, and that place is working harder than all the other CP Resorts combined. Why? I believe it is because Kalahari is there.

As for food prices: they are a little bit higher than one might expect---I can feed my family much better food for slightly less money at Disney than I can at CP. But, they are not completely out of line with expectations. My problem is that the quality of some things doesn't back up the prices, and the service CERTAINLY does not---and service is not just an early-season problem, either.

I may be in the minority here, and I agree with many things said, but I just don't see the problem with quality. To me it is about equal to McDonald's/Wendy's/Burger King, which is what I expect when I get burgers and fries at a place like Cedar Point.

I had one of the seasoned beef burgers and I thought it was really pretty good. The standard fries are typical fast food fries, and I find them better then Burger King or Wendy's but not as good as McDonald's. I had some free hot dogs at the Mini Golf Red Cross event which I thought were tasty and the cal-zones were fine also.

Now, personally, I want my junk food when I'm at the park. I actually wouldn't buy "real" food even if it was offered at a nice price point, it's not as fun for me when I'm at CP.

Not that I'm culinary challenged in any way, I really enjoy a night out at a great restaurant with some pan seared sea bass or Kobe beef, but I like my junk food at the park. For me, it's comfort food and highly appropriate when at CP.

*** Edited 5/15/2007 8:36:28 PM UTC by Pete***

I only buy snacks at the park just because of the cost. Even with a season pass, each trip to the Point costs over $35 for me between gas, turnpike fees and parking. If I have more than one other person going to split all those costs, I usually splurge and buy food, otherwise it's lunch meat and chips in the car. Sure, I'd love to just grab some food and save the walk and the hot car, but to save $10 I put up with it.

Someone I know who worked about 4 week in food service at the park says that Cedar Fair has "the best food service in the industry, that all the other parks try to live up to their standards". I find this a little hard to believe. Of course, this "walking encyclopedia" has had other facts wrong as well. When I said that I wouldn't mind if they moved or tore down DT, she said "Oh, they'll never do that. That was like, one of the very first roller coasters there." I kindly told her it was not and she went on to argue with me that it was built in "like, the 40's or 50's". I asked her if she meant the Blue Streak, and she said "No, I'm telling you, they'll never get rid of such an important part of the park." Whatever. I let her think she won that argument.

Pete said:
I may be in the minority here, and I agree with many things said, but I just don't see the problem with quality. To me it is about equal to McDonald's/Wendy's/Burger King, which is what I expect when I get burgers and fries at a place like Cedar Point.

You said it yourself this weekend, Pete. You're a CP enthusiast and not a park enthusiast. When you've been to places like Universal, Kennywood or Holiday World, you get a better idea about what the quality and price curve should look like.

The comparison to what you pay at other entertainment venues, like sporting events or concerts, is both valid and invalid. It's valid because, yes, that's your competition. Wouldn't you want to appear as a better value to your competition? It's invalid as well because you don't buy two or three meals at a sporting event, nor can you go back to your car at half-time.

And I think that maybe that's what contributes to their thinking. Instead of concentrating on what the customers see as value, they think in terms of comparisons. The day that a major theme park goes to "free" soda the way that Holiday World and others have, is the day that the value proposition gets worse.

I hope the powers to be read these comments and get the message loud and clear. Most of the comments here are from long time customers. If we feel this strongly how do you think the general public feels? For people to return and attendance to climb, customers must percieve value for their overall experience. This includes the whole package not just a new ride or thowing us a bone with 25 cent cotton candy. Listen to your customers! Excellent points throughout this topic.

Look at what Cedar Point does to bring people back year after year:

Maverick plus new restaurants in a near-failing food services department. A remodel of Friday's...a few new shows that, on average, most will see once, maybe twice, and, no offense to Live E!, but thats not even worth the ticket price hikes.

Bringing new restaurants, chains, seasoned beef patties, whatever does not equal the overall price hike, and by now, Cedar Point should know that building a new ride every season does near jack to increase numbers...as has been pointed out, the past what, five years has brought a decrease in attendance.

Sure, the economy around CP sucks, as does its second biggest supply of customers: Michigan. But I'd be willing to bet that if CP chose to decrease prices, increase the service quality, and truly bring life to all aspects of the park, i.e. credit/debit acceptance parkwide, updated ticket systems, etc. then they'd be seeing attendance increases.

Gas is going up? So what. Lower your prices and watch your numbers. I gurantee you the winner will be Cedar Point in the end.

But, who am I? Just one guest.

I agree with so much that has been said here (hope the powers at be are reading)

Before my friends and I entered the park on Sunday we all stopped at McDonald's because we knew the prices were high (probably $45 the park could have had- but it went to the golden arches instead). Obviously there will always be people who can afford to fork over the extra money for the food- but I think the lowered food prices was a good move last year, and one that takes far more that one season for word to spread.

Bought a hot pretzel near Scrambler on Saturday ($4.68), and it was cold- took it back, got a new one, it was cold- asked for a refund, waited a good 30 minutes for a supervisor to come, no one showed up- when you pay top dollar for something, you expect top dollar quality and service.

Its imperative that Cedar Point adapts to the economy- in my opinion I don't think Maverick is going to do much to the attendance- times are hard, people are losing jobs left and right. Cedar Point is a venue that is designed to make people happy- the happiness is taken away with $10 parking, and food that is OUTRAGEOUS! When I attended Holiday World last year I had an amazing time- sure there is no record breaking thrill ride, not even a steel roller coaster, but there is free parking, free sunscreen, free soft drinks, and food that is priced reasonably- and I don't see their attendance (or revenue) lacking one bit.

Cedar Point doesn't necessarily need to take this drastic of a step- but maybe their counterpart in Aurora should...
*** Edited 5/16/2007 12:22:54 AM UTC by Tilt-a-Whirl***

I think I can sum up my take on this by reitterating something I mentioned over at Coasterbuzz awhile ago comparing more "themed" parks (Disney) and CP. Cp does the "big" things as well as anyone...and some would say hands down the best (I'm talking coasters and thrill rides). By comparison, Disney does the little things perfect (theming, little touches).

Conversely, Disney is a bore if you want thrilling rides, while Cedar Point is absolutely horrid at the "little things", such as theming (I mean park theming as well as rides), landscaping (and by landscaping I do not mean "clean"), and, apparantly, food.

My argument was that the closest thing I have ever been to as a "perfect park" that does both well is Busch Gardens Europe.

But, that's my take, and unfortunately I think some of you honestly have unrealistic expectations of what Cedar Point could be, at least in the near future. Apparantly (at least in the eyes of current management) it's a trade off...the world's best and biggest thrills, but crappy little touches.

That's the CP I know.

And I'll take it.

Is there room for improvement? Of course. I've argued this for about a year; I would personally HAPPILY watch Cedar Point not install a new ride for a good four years if it meant they could improve other areas...food being just one of them.
*** Edited 5/16/2007 12:44:03 AM UTC by Kevinj***

Are you guys forgetting the price is still lower than a TON of other parks? They LOWERED the admission price and then raised it back up some. But, I'd hardly call that a "hike" in admission. If you compare how much you get at Cedar Point for the admission cost, you're getting an AMAZING bargain compared to most parks. It's clean, has a TON of rides, stellar shows, beautiful landscaping, friendly staff, etc... Six Flags parks are like $20 more just to get in. Yes, I know there are discounts, but there are discounts to CP too. Compare retail to retail.

I honestly don't think providing better food and lower prices is going to boost attendance like you guys are claiming it will. If lowering the gate price doesn't increase attendance, why do you think food will? They marketed the gate price and people still didn't come. Do you really think that family in Detroit is going to say, "OMG, they have cheap food at Cedar Point, let's drive all the way there and pay to get into the park to take advantage of the cheap food."? I highly doubt it.

2000 was a different time in the world. Millennium Force was an amazing ride that took the world by storm. Of course their attendance hit a spike that year. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Anyone who thinks they should continue to see an increase in attendance from there is dreaming. I really don't think you can compare Holiday World's attendance increase to Cedar Point. Cedar Point already had a huge attendance base, Holiday World did not. Of course they're going to see an increase.

I don't see Cedar Point getting to the "mega-destination" status like Universal or Disney. They just don't have the market or season to support something that massive. Unfortunately, that's what I think they need to do in order to get the attendance to increase to the level you guys are talking about.

Attendance isn't everything either. Knott's has a higher attendance than CP, but CP makes more money. Plus, CP is open only a fraction of time that Knott's is. That comparison alone shows that CP is doing quite well.

Would better food at a more affordable price be nice? Yes, of course. Would it drive an increase in attendance? I doubt it.

I totally agree that the price structure is utrageous! My earlier comment was just meant to say that the fast food quality is ok, it truly is price gouging.

I just so hapen to be sitting at Jacobs Field as I.m typing this, and a direct comparison makes CP food evan more utrageous. I baught a cheeseburger value meal at the Jake for about $7.50. That includes a 16 oz soda. CP's price is around $8.50 from what I remember WITHOUT the soda. Incredible in how outrageous that is!

CP used to have reasonable prices from the 60's through the 90's. Not any more. I agree that management is being very short sighted and this will probably turn people off and tarnish CP's reputation.

Indians 15 Twins 3 in the bottom of the 6th!

Tim,

I don't think lower food prices are going to get someone from Detroit to the park. But, I'm quite sure they high prices might be a significant reason that family doesn't return for a second time before the summer is over.

And, as far as I know, CPs best year wasn't MF in 2000. I'm pretty sure it is still Raptor '94.

Wow, Pete, so then if you do make that comparison, it really is pretty bad.

halltd said:
Are you guys forgetting the price is still lower than a TON of other parks?

Other parks aren't an hour west of Cleveland and two hours from Detroit. Don't you get that? You price according to what your market will respond to, not what Six Flags New England does. It's irrelevant. No one from Cleveland or Detroit knows or cares what the pricing is at other parks. It has no impact on what the target market decides to do with its leisure spending.

Like I said, it all comes down to the value proposition, and in a crappy market, the fact of the matter is that the value simply isn't what it used to be. A family of four, at $42 each, plus $10 parking, plus just one meal at $15, is already spending $238. How many families in these shrinking metros can afford that in one day, to say nothing of the $30 or so they'll spend in gas round-trip?

My gut says they'll have to settle for smaller margins in the short term and ride out the poor economy. If they do it right, maybe they can make it up on volume. After all, Cedar Point no longer accounts for 22% of the company revenue.

I dont go to CP to get a great meal at a great price, I go to ride the best coaster collection on the planet. I'll eat when I get back to my hotel.

If you lower food prices, then entry goes up. A lot of you seem to want both. Right now, I would say CP's entry is an absolute wonderful price point.

Families will come back because they had an awesome experience, not because they got a nice piece of salmon and fresh cooked brocolli for 7.50.

halltd said:
Attendance isn't everything either. Knott's has a higher attendance than CP, but CP makes more money. Plus, CP is open only a fraction of time that Knott's is. That comparison alone shows that CP is doing quite well.

Knots faces higher marginal costs for labor, utilities and products without higher marginal revenue. In other words, Cedar Point has curve that allows them to make more money for a given amount of money spent.

In response to Jeff: Aren't you basically saying the same thing I am? No matter what CP does, they aren't going to attract back those people from Detroit because the economy is in the dumpster. Unless they slashed the gate to like $20 and also slashed the food prices in half, the people coming from Detroit just can't afford it.

So, if you eliminate the people that aren't coming regardless, you're left with the people that do come. Per capita spending is up, so I don't see how food price is negatively affecting anything for them right now.

By the way - where can I get that salmon and broccoli for $7.50. :) *** Edited 5/16/2007 2:42:09 AM UTC by halltd***

I think it would have been better if they slowly raised the price. Maybe $0.50 this year, $1.00 next year and maybe stay at a $1.00. Still reasonable but not as extreme as a quarter.

As high as the pricing is in the park, it's not even close to what Six Flags is charging. Great Adventure charges $3.50 for a bottle of soda, $10 for a burger and fries at Johnny Rocket's, $6.49 for 1 slice of Papa John's Pizza not to mention the $15 parking.

The less people from Detroit, the more enjoyable my visit.

Kevinj said:
Families will come back because they had an awesome experience, not because they got a nice piece of salmon and fresh cooked brocolli for 7.50.

Spoken like someone who isn't paying for a family to visit there. Contrary to popular belief, an "awesome experience" isn't just riding a bunch of roller coasters. Soak up all the awesomeness you want, attendance continues to decline, and there's obviously a set of underlying reasons for that.

halltd said:
In response to Jeff: Aren't you basically saying the same thing I am? No matter what CP does, they aren't going to attract back those people from Detroit because the economy is in the dumpster.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. CP needs those people from Detroit. You saw that Kinzel interview, right? Or read the print version? If half of the guests from Detroit, how do you suppose the park survives without them?

They need to make adjustments.

Right. There are obviously still some people in Detroit that have money as evidenced by the crowds at the Red Wings, Pistons, Tigers, etc.

These people are choosing to not go to CP because they feel they can get better value out of doing something else.

There are more things than ever competing for peoples money these days. Mr. Kinzel even said this in his interview. Malls, movies, sporting events, concerts, restaurants, other parks, cars, big screen TVs, etc. CP needs to show people the value of a trip to Cedar Point.

But when people pull up to Cedar Point and have to pay $10 to park their car and get nothing in return, they feel ripped off. There is no value in that.

There is also no value in paying 4 bucks for a nasty hot dog that you have to wait 20 minutes to get. At a Busch park, I can get a full plate of delicious BBQ chicken, ribs, cornbread and fries for just a buck or two more than I'd pay at any restaurant. And I can get it in under five minutes and eat it in an air conditioned venue.

I love CP. I want them to succeed. But having gotten around to a few other places, I see how ridiculously behind they are in some areas. It's going to be their undoing if they don't start thinking beyond "raising prices by 5% will get us a 4% increase in per cap spending and a 3% decrease in attendance which nets us .5% more than last year and we can increase the dividend by a penny." *** Edited 5/16/2007 4:28:42 AM UTC by MDOmnis***