NEW Policy with MF seatbelts?

Maybe the two we'll come up with a clip that will lock the seat belt tightly.

The problem is not with the seat belt itself, but the fact that CP is using it as a device to limit the size of the rider. Read the thread.

I rode MF this past Sunday twice between 7:00 and 8:00 and things were going fairly smoothly. Only a few trains were stacked and it seemed like almost everyone who boarded the train was able to ride.

It may have been that the test seat was being used more due to media publicity, or just that by chance there were a lot of smaller people in the crowd that day.

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MFJedi2 said:
MF never accomodated 46" girth riders. I have a friend who has a 44" waist and he didn't even come close to fitting the test seat last year. I wear a 36 and they checked my belt 2 times,tugging it as much as they could.

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This is not true. Last year I wore 46 inch jeans (I think it should be made clear that I had a 46" waist; by some of the comments on here I suspect some on here are wearing their jeans around their hips, else I can't imagine them having trouble at 38" or even 40") and I rode MF with no real problems. I gained weight over the winter, but have since gone on the Atkins diet and lost around 26 pounds so far (I intend to get down to 200 lbs eventually). I'm now down to size 44 jeans and falling. However, while I could get he belt fastened last year, there certainly was no appreciable slack. Thus, I've postponed my plans to go to CP this year indefinitely.

From everything I've read thus far, there is simply NO way to TELL if I'll meet their requirements when I go or not. From some of these 38" type comments, it doesn't sound like it. Yet, I've lost 2-3 inches around the waist since last year so far, so that should theoretically give me more than an inch of slack by comparison to last year. But by all accounts, wait size is NOT the issue. The seat belt goes across your hips, not your waist. I've seen no proven data yet (this message is as far as I've gotten in this thread) on how to pre-measure oneself because it's NOT a cut & dry waist or weight issue. I've NEVER been turned away from a park ride (although I've had to go to the larger seats on some horsecolloar rides in the past; Universal's IOA comes to mind) and in the past I've been close to 300lbs before with size 48 jeans at my maximum. I still fit on Blue Streak and Magnum.

But this talk of size 36" and 225 lbs and what not... I'd LOVE to be that size. 195-205 is the "normal" weight range for my height (6'2"), yet two years ago I was down to 245 lbs and I was still at size 44 jeans. You don't always lose your weight around your gut right away. Yet I fit fine on rides like Alpengeist and Raptor that year. I'm not convinced even if/when I get to 225 that I will be 38", let alone 36". I was down to an extremely low for my height 160 lbs and <3% body fat back in junior high school a dozen years ago (big diet back then) and I think I still was 34" size jeans. I've got a slow metabolism, so losing weight is not easy for me. I thought I'd fit much better this year, but now I'm thinking I'm not wasting money going to CP just to be turned away. I was even thinking of getting a pass this year, even though it's a 2.5 hour drive for me each way (and with gas + parking, it'd still be expensive). MF & Magnum are my two favorites there. I was also hoping to ride TTD this year (wasn't running the first time and was too long of lines the second time I went last year). Fortunately, I've ridden the similar coaster at Kings Dominion a couple of years back (which I hear acclerated harder to its top speed than TTD does to its; it was quite a rush).

As for Mr. Anderson on here that thinks this is really about safety, what you think and what is reality are not neccessarily the same. I've got two engineering degrees and have some experience telling the difference between blue smoke and real issues. This is about Intamin trying to blow smoke up people's back sides after that Six Flags incident. Leftover seatbelt slack has nothing to do with anything. The seatbelt will function if it's tight. You don't see car makers shortening their seatbelt lengths to improve safety or making sure you have leftover slack of an inch. It doesn't work that way. The REAL issue here would be the primary lap bar, but the seatbelt is probably not a good measure of whether that lap bar is fitting properly or not, but even if it were, that demands new shorter seat belts, not leaving an operator liable to guess about that inch. It is the lap bar that should be of concern here with larger riders. That seatbelt would never even snap shut if they were too large for MF as they are very short to begin with. Anyone over a 46" waist probably wouldn't have a prayer of getting them to fit (they just barely fit me last year at 46"). Yet MF's lap bar fit me just fine. MF has no safety issue in that regard that I can see.

It sounds like Six Flags did have an issue because their seat belts were too long and the t-bar allowed itself to lock in at unsafe distances. Add to that operators that didn't properly assess and check the restraints and it's obvious where the problem was. Unfortunately for both Six Flags and Intamin, that makes them potentially LIABLE for that death and they don't WANT to be liable, so they're blowing any smoke they can up each others (and our) derriers to try and shift the blame. And we riders have to suffer as a result. What I do know is that if I were an exec at Cedar Fair, I'd be working with Intamin as fast as I could to rectify this issue before it cost my company a lot of money in lost sales over the long term and it WILL cost them sales and PR in a very short amount of time if not addressed.

Meanwhile, I am trying to lose weight, but even if I'm faithful to a diet plan, the weight doesn't come off immediately. There is little chance I will be 200 lbs by the end of this summer (not on the Atkins diet anyway, which after the initial fast 12 lb loss for me settled down to around 5-10 lbs a month; I've been on it for a little over 2 months now). I'm not sure I will even go to CP this year because of this. And since CF now owns Geauga Lake, might I expect similar issues to start cropping up there next as well? (Some are saying they are applying it to Blue Streak here too and that is not an Intamin coaster).

Holy Crap! I'd never thought I'd see you 'round these parts. I see you can make long posts here too. :) Welcome to Po!ntBuzz PacDude.

Edit - now that I had a chance to read your whole post... you have some valid points which echo a lot of us folks around here. I feel the same. Opening day this year was difficult and I still have yet to return even though I am a season pass holder. Last year on MF it was tight, but I only had to pull and stretch about 2-3mm to lock the belt. This year at opening day I was the same size as I was last year and I had to stretch it and pull about 1.5 inches to lock the belt. Then they came around and gave me this slack crap policy and I pulled with all my might and got the okay. I didn't dare go back on it again because the practice really seemed subjective and was different from one ride op to the next. One would say one measurement and the other would say I just need to see the black part of the belt - good enough. Either way I was strapped in and tight - what is the freaking difference?
*** Edited 5/24/2004 5:26:31 PM UTC by cyberdman***

OK here's my experience. Last year I weighed about the same as this year, around 208, 5'4", I fit last year with no slack. Same with the beginning of the season. Saturday i went after losing about 4 lbs, cuz I crashed dieted when I heard about the 1 in slack,and I was able to get 1 inch slack. My waist that morning was 40", but I think if you kind of get the seat belt below the stomach area you'll get it to fit better. I saw a man in line with a LARGE beer belly, but I bet he put the seat belt below it.

Cedar Fair won't lose money. I can tell you that right now because they make so much money everyday with Park Sales such as Admission, Games, Soveniers, admission on some rides, hotels, etc. They'll just have shorter lines for Millennium Force. My question is how come they didn't do the same for Top Thrill Dragster or Wicked Twister? I mean they are Intamin too. I'm not trying to encourage that they do but I was curious about that. Top Thrill Dragster has almost the same kind of seats that Millennium Force does.

Wicked Twister has over the shoulder harnesses and TTD has different lap bars and seats. The lap bars on TTD have a curve in them and the seats are deeper. Both restraints are different from the retraints on MF.

MF's restraints are similar to the Superman trains, though many here will say that MF's are better due to changes in the seat design.

This kind of has to do with this topic. I found this on screamscape. California is taking action on the New England accident and may make changes with Xcelerator. It also notes that the changes may include OTSR. LATimes won't let you read the article so I don't know if this is 100% true or it's another one of screamscape's unrealiable rumors. If it is true this will most likly effect TTD. Can anybody confirm this being true?

I have been following this thread since it started, and maybe I missed it because of the amount of posts, but:

Has anyone (that has been to the park this year) been turned away from MF after they were tested in the seat at the entrance to the ride?

Would they be allowed to even try that?

Don't count on it. The comment about switching over the the Storm Runner style restraint is an editorial comment from Screamscape. I think I saw the text of that LA Times article, and it merely indicates that DOSH may re-examine Xcelerator based on the outcome of the Superman case. Hopefully, DOSH is smart enough to realize that the only thing that the Superman and Xcelerator restraints have in common is the seat belt buckle and the basic shape of the lap bar pad. I'm guessing that is the case, as DOSH clearly recognized that Xcelerator != Perilous Plunge.

In any case, retrofitting any of the sit-down coasters with the Storm Runner-type train would be a huge project, and it would screw up the seating geometry...the real estate simply isn't there to install the new lap bar mechanism. Installing the Xcelerator-style lap bars on Superman, though...that would be easy, as the two systems look like they are almost interchangeable.

Personally, I hope they examine Six Flags' solution for the Superman rides (if it ends up being what I think it will end up being) and consider it as an alternative fix for Perilous Plunge.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Shadow: (You posted while I was posting my last message)--

Not only have people who fit in the test seat been turned away from the platform on Millennium Force, people who had ridden the ride earlier the same day have been turned away from Millennium Force. That, more than the simple restriction of the short seat belts, is causing grief and consternation.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Rideman:

I can see the frustration brought about from that kind of inconsistancy.

Perhaps they should do all testing at the entrance, and if you pass, give you a hand stamp or something to show to the ride ops, which should then allow you to ride. This should be a viable solution, since the seat at the entrance and the seats on the ride are identical, right? In addition, this would keep the lines in the queue moving smoothly.

I, for one, would not want to think that I 'passed the test' for an hour or two while in line, only to get kicked off. Alot of other things can be done in that time.

shadow, i like the way you think!!

heck, they give those colored wristbands to kids to show which rides they cna go on based on height...

why not do something like that for adult riders? that way, a quick flash of the wristband or handstamp or whatever would avoid any embarassment.

no one else has to see any transaction occur except the ride op and the rider...

pacdude, I do also have a 46 inch waist and I had no problem geting on MF last year, but I am going to try to get on this year...

The rideop at the front of the line said the test is a little bigger than the real thing. This took me by surprise because why would Intamin make a diferent seat for this. Isn't a test just a seat on a platform without the locking system?

I just returned from my trip to CP and as I predicted, I was unable to fit on the MF.

The ride op was announcing over his little speaker to the line for people to try the test seat if they had not already ridden this season.

He was also telling people that they must be able to buckle the belt themselves, without assistance.

From what I could see he was also asking specific people in line to try out the test seat. By this I mean, people who were in line that he thought might have difficulty, were asked to try the seat. It appeared that he was "screening" riders.

I asked him how many inches the belt had to be tightened on the ride and he looked at me like I was crazy and shook his head like he had no idea what I was talking about. He never did answer the question.

While waiting for the rest of my party I saw many, people try the test seat and fail. Many, as in 20 in a 30 minute time frame. Many were women how seemed visibly upset and were what I would consider of average, or healthy weight. Several strangers decided to complain to me, I guess because it was obvious I too could not ride.

The other in my party who did ride tole me about people being asked to leave the ride and the anger they expressed. They also reported that each of their belts were tightened by the ride ops, sometimes twice.

I tried not to let it ruin my trip, as I still enjoyed all the other coasters, but the sour taste in my mouth from sitting in that test seat and seeing that belt come so close to latching is still there.

I really think it depends on the ride op that day. I had no problem on saturday. And I was borderline for sure.

I still say they should come up with a way to compensate people who sit in the test seat, wait in line for an hour, and then get booted off. My suggestion is an 'instant Freeway' pass for Dragster, since Dragster is more accommodating than Millennium Force.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

An editorial from Monday's Blade praises the park for "not taking any chances with safety" while at the same time blasting fat people for complaining about a problem their habbits created. The last paragraph is particuarly hateful toward overweight people.

Then again, I wouldn't worry about this editorial holding too much water. I haven't met a person yet who wasn't convinced that the Blade's editorial staff is on crack.