Mystery Construction

Jeff.

Do you think that maverick not being a recard breaker had anything to do with it? Just a question.

That brings up the question: Has cedarpoint raised the bar so hight, that they have to go above and beyound everytime they build a new ride/coaster to compete with themself?

Chief Wahoo said:

Planet Snoopy was gettting some criticism for "duplicating" Camp Snoopy. I think that was a little unfair and Planet Snoopy isn't bad. But, Planet Snoopy isn't a "family area" in my mind. It is a "kids area". It is a fine kids area, to be sure, but it doesn't address the family issues that I criticize or that Cedar Point itself has made clear they are hoping to draw back to the park.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner.

From the 2008 Rider Height Guide:

Of the park's 17 roller coasters, only two may be ridden by kids under 46" tall -- Jr. Gemini and Woodstock Express.

Only two more may be ridden by kids between 46" and 48" tall -- Disaster Transport and Iron Dragon.

Neither of the two remaining, significant water rides can be ridden by kids under 46" tall. (SRF's min. height is 48".)

According to this guide, there are 49 attractions that children under 46" can ride, either by themselves or accompanied by a parent. Of those, the following are most definitely kids' rides, not family rides:

Motorcycles
Old Timers
Police Cars
Dune Buggies
Hot Rods
Mustangs
Helicopters
Krazy Kars
Roto Whip
Sky Fighters
4 x 4's
Kite Eating Tree
Snoopy's Space Race
PEANUTS Road Rally
Flying Ace Balloon Race
Woodstock's Whirlybirds
Snoopy's Deep Sea Divers
Camp Bus
Balloon Race
Lolli Swing
PEANUTS 500
Snoopy Bounce
Red Baron
Bumper Boats
Frog Hopper
Rock, Spin & Turn
Space Age

That's 27 definitive kids' rides. Many of them are only available to kids, period. Although some may be allow adults, most do not comfortably accommodate adults.

I would classify Sir Rub-a-Dub's Tubs, Jr. Gemini and Snoopy's Express Railroad as (arguably) family rides. At least the first one can acceptably accommodate an adult frame.

So here are the true family rides, such as they are, at Cedar Point:

Super Himalaya
Dodgem
Antique Cars
Cadillac Cars
Turnpike Cars
Sky Ride
Giant Wheel
Calypso
Monster
Paddlewheel Excursions
Space Spiral
CP & LE Railroad
Midway Carousel
Kiddy Kingdom Carousel
Matterhorn
Troika
Ocean Motion
Scrambler
Tilt-a-Whirl*
Woodstock Express

That's 20 rides, including two carousels and three car rides, but only one roller coaster and no flumes. Seven are spin n' pukes.

Also note that, excepting Woodstock Express, none of those rides was built after the 1980's. Doesn't sound like much of an ongoing commitment to family to me.

Maybe the CP to WDW comparison is unfair. Maybe a better comparison would be with the Point's corporate sister down the road. KI's Nickelodeon Universe has a number of great family rides, many of them recent:

Scooby Doo's Haunted Castle
Runaway Reptar
Avatar
Fairly Odd Coaster
Phantom Flyers
Thornberry's River Adventure

Which park would you rather go to as a family? Yeah, that's what I thought too.

As was pointed out previously, it's not that Cedar Point doesn't have attractions for families. It's just that, given its size and scope, and given its alleged commitment to families, they could and should be doing a Lot More.

*Correction. Tilt-a-Whirl was built the same year as WE, in 1999.

So if this construction is in fact for a new attraction, one family installation would do...........what?

For the kinds of comparisons that you and a few others have pointed out, the park has apparently such a long way to go that it would take some sort of massive installation of family attractions to satisfy the entire spectrum from kids, to teens, to thrill seekers, to senior citizens.

I'm seeing a lot of flaws, and honestly, this one is one more to add to the list, many here make it seem like a flume or family attraction magically makes everything better, which is not much different than the attitude that upper management has currently.

I still think that, as Ensign pointed out, (I think), you have a choice of other parks, and if they do indeed offer a better family line up, go there. I just don't see how CP can, in short term, measure up to the high family standards that I think are unfairly put on them, and honestly, if they dropped the "family" phrase they use so much, we'd probably lose half the critics in this forum alone.

Mk, you have to start somewhere, and investing in a amazing flume or dark ride would go a long way towards that. The park needs maybe 2-4 "family rides added and I would start thinking differently.

When I was a kid and I couldn't ride a lot of coasters, I still had a great time at CP... I loved Kid Arthur's court... the cargo net & the maze. I remember liking the sky slide or whatever a lot, and it was really cool to be able to play mini-golf because my parents rarely wanted to pay for that outside of the park... plus the course was cool with the various mini-versions of CP rides. I dug the train, Paddle Wheel boats, and Sky Rides. Frontier Town felt like it was someplace down in Tennessee where my grandparents lived.

I remember a year where I could basically do all of that, plus ride Cedar Downs, Mill Race, Earthquake and the Pirate Ride (and then one year later, the height requirement was raised on Cedar Downs and I was really upset)...

Of course, when you like something, you hate to see it leave... but even trying my hardest, I don't understand how the Bearenstein Bears country is any more fun to a kid than Earthquake (certainly wasn't to me), or why Pirate Ride couldn't / wouldn't be fixed.

As a kid, I always thought the Disney parks looked like they were for babies and I never wanted to go (and as an adult, I totally love the Disney parks).

Mk, you seem to think I'm attacking the park. I'm doing completely the opposite -- being vocal about the ways in which this park that I love could become better.

One new family ride, by itself, would only be a start, as Touchdown said. But if it were of the quality and well thought out investment that characterizes CP's thrill rides, it would be a good start indeed.

Suggesting that if customers don't like what CP has to offer they should go elsewhere is wrong-headed. If CP's customers don't like what CP is offering, then perhaps CP should change, augment, or improve what it is offering. This is true not only of family attractions but of any given area. Food service. Pricing. Etc.

Ensign did what I did not have the will, energy or patience to do. Thank you for putting it all down on paper.

I love roller coasters as much as the next enthusiast, but the park already has 17. There's parks out there that have less than five. I'm not saying CP should never build another coaster, it's just that they have catered mostly to the thrill seekers when it comes to a major ride addition.

A new flume or dark ride won't automatically level it out, but it's a start.

Ok so if this is clearing for 2010, the question I have, will this be the last year for the paddlewheel excursions?

As T&T said last year during Terror Island, Paddlewheel will be operating next year. But if this has changed I don't know or if this could be its last season, that's anyones guess.

it's hard to say really. There's no reason why a ride couldn't be built to accommodate PE...

Chief: eh, I was bored. :)

Matt: I believe you have asked the million dollar question.

Well look at this way ridership has steadily decreased for PE, some of the props and scenes are not in the best shape. They could easily make a walking path thru MF Island and leave the floating bridge for Terror Island in place after this seasons Hallow weekends. It would make for intresting vantage point to watch MF almost would as cool as walking under the corkscrew on the midway.

Add a "Avatar" ride, like the one in Kings Island, in Planet Snoopy and build a friggin sweet woodie on Mille Island.

Here is my question, if the woodie turns out better than Millennium will the island's name change? :)

Since the discussion has veered off course, I'll end my debate by saying that I don't believe most of you here who have voiced an opinion are attacking the park, though some of you need better wording. Because Cedar Point has at least put in an effort at moving towards families, after losing everything from "back in the day" that made it family friendly, I think it's okay to say that if people really can't be happy with what the park currently offers, they need to seek out another park.

That being said, I would love for a flume to come in, to say they are only good for the hot summer months is short sighted, WWL was certainly popular longer than that.

How long has PE been around? I wasn't sure if its a classic or not, just curious.

Interesting points being brought up here.

I have been to Disney World twice in the past 2 years, once on a senior high school trip and once with the family. When I went with my buddies, the only thing that made the trip memorable was the fact that we were all together one last time running around Orlando like a bunch of idiots.

I have 6 people in my family, Mom(hates rides and roller coasters), Dad (everything but spin and puke), brother 21 (anything), me 19 (anything), sister 18 (anything but big coasters) and a sister 11 (anything). When I went with my family, we rarely split up to ride rides like we do when we go to CP or any other Amuesment park. Riding all the rides together made the memories on that trip.

Now, if we're going to compare Disney to CP, I'm going to say Disney is the complete opposite as they cater to families over thrill seekers. Personally, they could afford to build up their arsenal of thrill rides for junkies like me, so why not give them the same criticism we are giving CP for not having enough family rides?

Can CP use more family rides? Absolutely. Can Disney use more thrill rides? Absolutely. But we're comparing two different beasts here, "America's ROLLER Coast" to "The Happiest Place on Earth." One specializes in thrills, the other in families. Clearly there's alot of money to be made when you advertise dreams coming true, which means there is alot of money in the family demographic. But Disney has something CP doesn't, and that is GLOBALLY known characters and a story to tell. Okay, CP has the Peanuts, but I don't remember the last time they went on a sailing adventure to the Caribbean running from the British in search of gold, or if they've ever been to never never land.

CP could put in a flume ride and make it one of those 3D shooter games like at Disney Hollywood studios. Thats killing 2 birds with one stone (or cream pie, or darts, or what-have-you). But they don't need to go ballistic trying to appease what seem to be some very high standards for some people out there.

I guess what I'm trying to say is CP has 17 coasters for a reason. Their specialty is not princesses and fairygodmothers. Their specialty is moving me at the speed of light on miles and miles of endless coaster track.

Well said^^^.

I sure hope PE is here for years to come, it's a very unique ride.

Heres another concept they could do, Im sure many of you remember that where TTD is now the creek/river was there...well they could move the creek where they have cleared and expand frontier town and still build a good sized coaster or flume ride....maybe even build a small midway to skyhawk so its not a dead end. Its not a bad idea really.That way they can still have PE and maybe alittle extra room for a flat ride too. They could build a coaster/flume and also move Demon Drop back there too if they dont sell it,then free up space in the front. Im just thinking out loud lol.

Just my 2 cents, but I personally hope that its a new Coaster or Thrill ride. Being what I would consider being Cedar Fairs target market, 28, with a family, I try to go to both parks in Ohio. Also living in Central Ohio I consider myself lucky because I can easily make either park a one day trip. This year because of Diamond Back we are planning on making Kings Island a 2 day trip and not going to the Point. Last year we did both parks. Cedar Point with kids, and Kings Island with no kids, but I will say as far as a family bringing in more money than teenagers or "not families" I can say that's wrong when it comes to me. If the kids go with us to a park then we pack a cooler. Its a lot easier to pack something everyone likes and cheaper, plus its a nice break for the kids to walk out to the car and eat. I don't buy my kids toys that are soon forgotten about when we get home, nor do we do the goofy games. So I think that the "Family" argument is an invalid point. I really think it comes down to (at least for me) whose got the "NEW" thats where you will find me and my family.