Motley Fool Article

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Big D said:
As soon as they begin Mass-Production of Hybrid cars...And convert Gas stations to hydrogen refuling stations then the prices will go down for the hybrid cars. I dont see why we wouldnt make that switch.

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I saw a really cool show on one of my favorite stations, PBS, (2nd only to NBC!). . .this is what was said:

. . .hydrogen cars aren't being mass produced because companies are reluctant to build a lot of hydrogen fueling stations. And why are they reluctant to build the fueling stations? Because hydrogen cars aren't being mass produced. So the whole idea is temporarily stuck . . . but the technology is there, so when we eventually realize we must change, we can. :) I just thought that catch-22 was interesting.

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Oh my. . .NBC's Must See TV Thursday was absolutely amazing. . . I am speechless!

So why doesn't one of the car companies and one of the fueling stations make a deal together? You think that they would be launching themselves at a new opportunity to make money! (Yes, I realize there are start-up costs involved, but if they were the first to do this, they could get some patents on the technology and hold some sort of a monopoly in this area for awhile). I think the investment in the environment would be more than worth the initial cost, but then, I'm not the head of a billion-dollar company -- I can only think in ideologic terms!

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~Lee~

Group Sales ATL '01
Group Sales TL '02
Park Admissions Supervisor '03
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"The greatest leaders don't take credit for their actions; they don't have to."
*** This post was edited by Lee 3/15/2003 7:03:46 PM ***

At least the prices aren't as high as a few countries in Europe. Apperintly they are around double the price per gallon over there. I think so, at least....

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Aww.....Florida! But That's America's Wang

When I was in Rome over Spring Break, I noticed the people drive a LOT smaller cars and tiny scooters around town. My professor said that this was not only because of the smaller size of the streets, but also because those smaller cars have much better gas mileage; the gas is much more expensive over there...about 5-7 Euros per their "gallon."

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~Lee~

Group Sales ATL '01
Group Sales TL '02
Park Admissions Supervisor '03
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"The greatest leaders don't take credit for their actions; they don't have to."

Those "gallons" are called liters. Remember: the quarter pounder in Amsterdam is called the Royale with Cheese, thanks to our friend the metric system. ;) But yes, gas is much more expensive in Europe. It's higher in Canada, too. This is in part because those countries tax gasoline at a much higher rate than we do here.

One of the major benefits of being a professor is the ability to travel regularly to other parts of the world as part of my job. Europe is fabulous. Its public transportation systems (excepting that of Rome, as it happens) are clean, efficient, and ubiquitous. It is possible to travel nearly anywhere via rail conveniently and inexpensively. People live in high density developments, providing decent farmland preservation and without undue sprawl. Traffic is still hell, but that's more to do with the higher densities and older road infrastructures than perverse driving habits. Generally speaking, the food in Europe is better too, though you'd be hard pressed to tell in most of Germany or the UK.

I hear there are a few good coasters there, too, though I've only been to Disneyland Paris so far. Probably should have gone to Parc Asterix instead.

It is perfectly possible to live in even mid-sized European cities and never own a car. That's almost impossible in the States outside of a handful of our largest cities: New York, DC, and maybe Chicago and San Francisco. I can go places conveniently by rail from Ann Arbor, as long as those places are Detroit or Chicago.

Thanks, Brian, I wasn't sure if it was in liters or a larger amount. I didn't get a chance to hop on the bus or the subway while we were in town; for the most part we avoided it at all costs due to the fact that, as tourists, we were walking targets for pickpocketing. Instead, we walked everywhere, up to 14 miles a day. So did the local people; no wonder Europeans are generally much smaller than we are!!

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~Lee~

Group Sales ATL '01
Group Sales TL '02
Park Admissions Supervisor '03
----------------------
"The greatest leaders don't take credit for their actions; they don't have to."
*** This post was edited by Lee 3/15/2003 10:25:07 PM ***

I lived in Paris for seven years & never owned a car. Didn't miss it a bit. Vacations were either by train or rented car. There are quite a few things Americans could learn from Europe (and vice versa for that matter).

-- Harley

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CP fan since 68.

I don't think gas prices will stop anyone from coming tp CP to ride TTD

I think that the overall economy (which really sucks right now) will effect attendence more than gas prices. IMO if a family is concerned about spending $20 extra in gas, they will still go to the park, but cut back on food and drink bought in the park. A decent size cooler with cold cuts and bottled water makes for a decent lunch that is reasonably priced.

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The best thing about Six Flags "Worlds of Adventure" is that Cedar Point is nearby!

It's perfectly possible to ride the busses and what passes for the subway in Rome without worrying much about pickpocketing. I have a neck wallet that, when worn under the shirt, is pretty hard for a pickpocket to come by. I usually also have a regular wallet, with 10-20 euros in it, for small purchases. If someone gets that, I don't mind so much.

I did have my wallet lifted in the Munich airport once. Again, only about 20 euros lost, but I had to replace some credit cards and some ID, which was a drag. Luckily, I was on my way home at the time, and I *never* carry my passport/tickets anywhere but my neck wallet.

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Lee said:
The government should be investing its money in developing electric and other environmentally-friendly vehicles that have the same power and mileage as gasoline-driven ones.

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I wouldn't go that far. It's not the government's role to fund R&D for auto companies, especially when the US companies are so far behind. How many years now have Honda and Toyota been selling hybrids?

The better solution is to tax the gas guzzling vehincles. I might be wrong, but I thought there already was legislation that did that, and it's what forced passenger cars to have higher fuel economy. The loophole is that SUV's are classified as trucks, and therefore exempt.

I thought I read somewhere that California was doing this, or considering it, because it seems to be the only state in the union that really gets the problem of pollution and energy consumption (even if they got it totally wrong with electricity).

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Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP - Sillynonsense.com
"The world rotates to The Ultra-Heavy Beat!" - KMFDM

California tried to force car companies to sell a small percentage of cars that used alternative fuel sources, but they just recently dumped the legislation. None of the car companies met their quota. The EV-1 is really the only alternative car that is having even a modicum of success.

-- Harley

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CP fan since 68.

The Motley Fool article was made claims with respect to CF which I believe are quite unsubstantiated by the facts. That may be the case at many other regional parks, however a company such as CF does not raise its dividend earnings based upon negative future economic indicators. I trust CF’s judgment that their analysis’s have a firmer grasp on the industry than a couple columnists. Chances are this will help to support gate takes, since a trip to CP if you are local is a cost effective alternative over vacationing further away from home.

In regards to alternative fuel vehicles, take it from someone who is actually in the automotive industry, there is plenty of development in this area. One issue to overcome is the infrastructure cost, the chicken and egg syndrome previously identified, but it goes a bit deeper than just infrastructure. The problem is there are advancements in the field everyday. There are many competing technologies, and nobody wants to invest in technology which will become obsolete in six months or not become a standard at all.

Electric cars you say? Well, they are up to 72% efficient once the car is charged, but the power had to get there somehow. Now, if you do not charge your car off a nuke plant, hydro-electric, solar, wind, etc, then when you include the coal burning power plant in your efficiency equation, you find your electric car is actually 26% efficient. All numbers are estimates, but this is not much better than a 20% efficient gas powered car, and can actually be worse on the environment depending on how the power was derived.

So, how about hydrogen? The typical PEMFC (Proton exchange membrane fuel cell) has gotten past having to keep tanks of a highly explosive gas on board that can only be refueled in a lab. Most actually use a reformer to convert gas or methanol into electricity fairly well. However, the hybrid-electric vehicles that are currently being produced work quite well with regenerative breaking, alternator/starters, etc. The electric motor supplies torque where the engine needs it and horse power is derived from the gas engine. I have driven a few, and would buy one. A Honda Civic got me to CP and back on half a tank of gas! At $20k with tax benefits, not too bad of a deal! -j
*** This post was edited by jmen 3/17/2003 12:31:34 AM ***

About the government in the field of R&D in alternative fuel vehicles, the government has for many years pumped a LOT of money in these programs. The DoD has many joint development projects with the automotive industry, mainly to support private sector initiatives, but to also benefit from the technologies. One example of this would be the hybrid electric RAM truck the Army is looking at, not only is it more efficient translating in require less logistics in getting fuel to it on the battle field, but a soldier also has a built in 5kW on board generator built in to plug their tools in to! There are also many fuel cell programs and flexible fuel initiatives being worked on, and this is only accelerating. The government sees the technology as a tactical advantage, so supports it heavily. If anyone recalls the President’s state of the union address, has explicitly earmarked hundreds of millions of dollars in budgetary spending to support these programs. And, remember where fuel cells originated about 25 years ago. They were developed for NASA’s space shuttle program.

So, what are the leading technologies in the field? Believe it or not, diesel will become a viable option. The European markets have a much higher percentage of vehicles running on diesel, but the high sulfur content in US fuel is prohibiting. This is going to change in the next few years, and all of the automotive companies are going to expand their diesel offerings. The other is fuel cells with ethanol or gas reformers, requiring minimal change to the supply chain and power density increases are fairly rapid, along with lower operating temperature, quicker start-ups, etc. The same with flexible fuel vehicles that will run on just about anything you put in them. In the future, I kinda like the sodium boro-hydride fuel cell concept, in which your car is refueled by replacing solid containers that are in solid form. They are then processed on board to release hydrogen to run your PEMFCs producing water and lots of soap that can be reused, and if disposed of does not harn the environment. And in a pinch you can have really clean clothes! -j
*** This post was edited by jmen 3/17/2003 1:00:38 AM ***

Back to topic, that Fool article was misleading at best and illustrates the problem with too many experts being out there on the internet. Articles like that could effect share price. The author holds Cedar Fair stock by the way.

Years back when stock guru Peter Lynch first spoke of Cedar Fair stock he made a good point about the economy and Cedar Point. Basically his point is that a poor economy or high gas prices may prevent some people from going to Cedar Point, but other people will be going to Cedar Point instead of more expensive destinations (ie Europe or Disney World) for the same reason.

I have a hybrid vehicle and I wouldn't sell it for anything right now. I can drive 450 miles a week on 15 bucks of gas at $1.69 a gallon.
Did anyone hear the statement from OPEC last week about oil prices though? They said once the war starts, they will up production to prevent a shortage, and that any gas price increases would come from the oil companies. Also, anyone ever wondered why the oil companies have such high profit rates in the middle of a recession? Gouging!!!

What is your miles per gallon? What you're describing I get with my "old-fashioned" '01 Camry.

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Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP - Sillynonsense.com
"The world rotates to The Ultra-Heavy Beat!" - KMFDM

The prices of raw oil are definitely falling right now (source: MSNBC, CNN, Fox News)

What will happen longer-term, who knows. Remember, gas is literally cheaper than water in the United States; anyone who complains about the price of gas should reconsider the car they drive...

What little respect I might have had left for Motley Fool vanished in a puff of smoke with that article.

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--Greg
My Home
MF count: 54

I get around 48-50mpg, but this is a Civic, so it's about 10mpg more than the average Civic. It's a nice size car with great mileage. Thank god gas dropped to $1.42 now, I can get over 500 miles a tank again.

Uh, what does the cost of the gas have to do with how efficient your car is? Expensive gas doesn't mean you get fewer miles per gallon.

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Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP - Sillynonsense.com
"The world rotates to The Ultra-Heavy Beat!" - KMFDM