Mean Streak?

campfreak06 said:

I guess after working at the park and seeing the nightly maintenance they do on that ride, it's just a turnoff for me.

Better than not seeing any work done nightly. Seriously, there are plenty of parks out there that don't do any work to a ride until they absolutely have to. Its down right scary if you knew what some parks do or don't do when it comes to Maintenance, especially those that reside in states that don't have any government regulation. I spent the same nights you did seeing Wicked Twister being welded but it never deterred me away from riding.

Actually, it is not scary at all not having a government inspector look at a ride once or twice a year. Do you really think the insurance company would insure a ride if they felt like the ride was not being operated safely? Most owners also have a strong interest in not killing their guests, it tends to be bad for business. And states that do not require a government agent to look at a ride still provide severe penalties for negligence that results in severe injuries or deaths.

History is littered with disasters involving industry regulating themselves. While regulation and oversight do not, and cannot prevent all accidents from happening it surely helps. Regulations and enforcement are almost always the result of learning from prior accidents and implementing standards to prevent or mitigate the same from occurring in the future.

History is also filled with times where human life was seen with little value, a time where two people dying a day in a single mine was seen as an acceptable rate. I must admit that is a bad comparison, comparing poorly paid workers with customers is utter nonsense. With that point made, I will digress from this thread unless it is related to Mean Streak.

Seeing a brand new ride being welded nightly is a red flag to me that someone screwed up bigtime. I still rode it because I trusted that Cedar Point would not do anything to put people in danger. It would have been really bad for business for pieces to come flying off or one of the spikes on their brand new ride to break off. No one knows amusement rides better than the parks themselves and the manufacturers. In some cases, you might get a former maintenance worker working for the state to do inspections and they might be quite knowledgeable. Other times, the inspector probably knows next to nothing. It's bad business to injure or kill people with your rides.

I was worried that after the Magnum train bump, they'd go down to two trains permanently also. But they've taken steps with rain policies, an extra brake outside the tunnel, and redoing the entire braking/control system to avoid another incident like that and have run okay with three trains for several years since then so I don't see any reason they'd change now. I am sure numbers are down, but it's because of the changes they've made and their effect on operations, not because no one wants to ride. I don't ride over and over and over like I used to. It's not because the ride sucks or I am old, but it's rarely just a walk on these days. They're always chaining rows off or running two trains or only letting two trains worth of people into the station, etc. So I'll ride a time or two and move on. Jerry and others have rode Magnum upwards of 80 times per day in the early part of the 2000's. I'm not sure that would be possible these days with how they run the thing. The Gemini 100 wouldn't be possible anymore either. Cedar Point Ride operations are still pretty good and better than most parks, but they aren't what they used to be in terms of efficiency.

I do think they'd be better off just starting with three and getting the crew used to that pace (even if you transfer one off at lunch time during a lot of May/June weekdays because you are sending 12 or more empty seat per train on average) rather than using two and then going to three when it gets busy.

We have hundreds of welders on site right now where I work for a major project, some are much better than others. The regulations and standards come into play when inspecting welds as opposed to an enforcement official being the word wide expert on welding. X-Ray and UT scans of welds, supports etc.. Are most likely regulated and standardized for the amusement industry as they are for the oil industry, thus making sure that the person doing the welding did it correctly. Sometimes even the best make mistakes, thus the need for testing. That additional layer of protection ( the testing) might not be there if it weren't for the regulatory agency as opposed to industry regulating themselves.

TTD 120mph said:
I'm wasn't comparing Mean Streak to The Legend......it's ludicrous to even think that. How in the world did you get that idea?

Well, because you were implying that the only thing separating MS from being better was a little track work by GCI, basing that on what they did with The Legend. Which you confirm in your next sentence. :-)

I was talking about what GCI has done with The Legend and GhostRider... They've altered the layout in a few spots on The Legend and GhostRider... So I'm using these things as evidence that they COULD do something very significant to the layout to make it better as well as help with maintenance.

All I'm saying is that MS is so, so far from being a good coaster that it would take way more than changing the layout "in a few spots" as they did with those other coasters. I mean, they certainly could pay GCI to do some work, but it would take so much alteration that the cost would be significant. And at a certain point, it doesn't make sense to spend a ton of money polishing a turd. Better to tear it down completely, or do something similarly radical such as RMC'ing it. That way, you're not being limited by the existing layout (or not nearly as much in the case of RMC).

And how would any of what you said about polls matter regarding to what Cedar Point wants to do? If they want to invest in something with the structure and it's something that would/could significantly make the ride experience better, what would a few million matter?

But that's just it - there's more than a few million separating MS from being anywhere the same class as The Legend. CP knows how both the public and enthusiasts receive MS. They'd never publicly say so, but they know it's crap.

I'm willing to bet they didn't care about "Mitch's Poll" when thinking about the floorless transformation.

I was using the poll as a point of objective measure that illustrates what people in general feel about MS. So, sure, maybe the park doesn't care about that poll specifically, but that poll represents the overall appeal of MS, of which the park is certainly aware.

And more specifically to the point about Rougarou, painting the track, buying new trains, and modifying the station is a far cry from a "huge" refurbishment of a wooden coaster.

jscll said:

Do you really think the insurance company would insure a ride if they felt like the ride was not being operated safely?

Do you really think insurance companies are on site each season to make sure the rides are up to their standards? It is honestly no different that buying insurance for a car. When I got mine, nobody came out to look at my car or to see if it was safe to operate. In some situations I am sure they may require a site inspection by a 3rd party upon the initial build but not ever year after that.

Most owners also have a strong interest in not killing their guests, it tends to be bad for business.

And a lot of owners look at the cost of a repair vs. how likely it is to hurt someone. I have worked for companies who put off repairs because of cost knowing full well that it could end in someone, guest or employee, being hurt or killed. Like I said above, its scary at times what goes on behind closed doors when it comes to maintenance. I have been behind those doors and I didn't like it one bit which is ultimately why I left that particular company but it can and does happen more than it should, at all levels, and at parks of every size.

I was listening to some sports talk radio show recently and the host made a comment that made me think of Mean Streak. He was commenting on the experience of watching the Oklahoma City Thunder, a team that has had it's share of difficulty this season but is in the conference finals.

"Watching the Thunder is a lot like riding an old wooden roller coaster, it pounds you around, beats you up, but it is very fun!"

MDOmnis said:

No one knows amusement rides better than the parks themselves and the manufacturers. In some cases, you might get a former maintenance worker working for the state to do inspections and they might be quite knowledgeable.

I know of at least one former GL maintenance employee who now does state inspections.

It is not in the best interest of anyone to operate rides unsafely. Government involvement doesn't change that. When people get hurt, it's really bad for business.

When they were welding WT back together every night, they should have just shut the ride down until the permanent fix was ready. Nobody wants to ride a coaster held together by a "duct-tape" fix, and that's all the welding was, especially since it became a nightly ritual.

There were also rides like the Incredible Hulk that apparently were going through nightly welding fixes, and that ride operated for 15 or 16 years without an incident.

I'd say it's better that they were on top of the issue and repairing & reinforcing Wicked Twister opposed to being unaware there was an issue and having an accident... Intamin was convinced their box track could support itself with little support. Didn't the Impulse coaster at GL (now at Dorney) have some huge additional support added? And I think Xcelerator at KBF did as well?

djDaemon said:
Well, because you were implying that the only thing separating MS from being better was a little track work by GCI, basing that on what they did with The Legend. Which you confirm in your next sentence. :-)

All I'm saying is that MS is so, so far from being a good coaster that it would take way more than changing the layout "in a few spots" as they did with those other coasters. I mean, they certainly could pay GCI to do some work, but it would take so much alteration that the cost would be significant. And at a certain point, it doesn't make sense to spend a ton of money polishing a turd. Better to tear it down completely, or do something similarly radical such as RMC'ing it. That way, you're not being limited by the existing layout (or not nearly as much in the case of RMC).

I was using the poll as a point of objective measure that illustrates what people in general feel about MS. So, sure, maybe the park doesn't care about that poll specifically, but that poll represents the overall appeal of MS, of which the park is certainly aware.

My evidence still supports my theory, so poo on you. ;)
Would they or will they do it? Most likely not a snowballs chance in hell. But COULD they? Without a doubt. But let me just go on record saying that I prefer a demolition of that pile of sticks over what I theorized. I only brought it up because a friend of mine asked what I thought of the park really wanting to have a traditional wood coaster. To which I then thought about GCI.

I've also seen Raptor get some weld love. ...And yet it remains.

Unfortunately, MS needs much more that some welds...

^Many people would disagree. I've heard many a person make remarks that would suggest they'd be delighted if somebody took a welding torch to Mean Streak :P.

campfreak06 said:

When they were welding WT back together every night, they should have just shut the ride down until the permanent fix was ready. Nobody wants to ride a coaster held together by a "duct-tape" fix, and that's all the welding was, especially since it became a nightly ritual.

I am very sure they were not welding the ride back together every night. They were modifying the track structure with added cross ties to stiffen the structure to presumably prevent metal fatigue. That took a certain number of days because they welded a fairly large number of cross braces. Then, over the off season, they added the two extra braces. I have no idea how they determined the track needed reinforcement, but it indicates that they are right on top of structural issues and they would not operate the ride if it wasn't safe. This is not a "duct-tape" fix, it is a preemptive modification to ensure the ride is safe.

With all due respect to the state inspectors, the park's own maintenance people are much more important to the safe operation of the rides than the state inspectors. Going back to the sixty's, CP's maintenance dept. practically wrote the book on modern, non-destructive testing of amusement rides. This was before any state inspection laws were on the books in Ohio. I believe that legacy of safety and inspection is alive and well at CP today and I wouldn't be concerned about any welding or other things on the rides.

Shane Denmark said:

... Intamin was convinced their box track could support itself with little support. Didn't the Impulse coaster at GL (now at Dorney) have some huge additional support added? And I think Xcelerator at KBF did as well?

Every single impulse coaster got the additional supports. You can see them on Steel Venom at Valleyfair and V2 at SFGAm. The only one that I think did not get the additional supports was the one built at SFDK in California, but that was modified for completely different reasons after its first season.

I am at the park now and can confirm that it is open!