Mantis removal or transformation?

New is good. I'd rather then referb Mantis, continue the revamp of mindways, added flat rides, a major referb of the Grand Pavilion, and then build something uber-epic for the 150th season.

The 150th season could and should develop into a national celebration of that park. It is the kind of thing that could ripple into major boosts in attendance for ten years.

But if the park is less than Disney in being clean and tidy, less than epic in supporting rides and such, and folks come and go and 18 months later visitor numbers are flat to declining.

Just watched this POV video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeRVYWCJO0M of a B&M floorless called Kraken and I felt like I was riding Mantis with almost the exact same layout of track. Watch/compare.

After watching this, I can see a possible convert to a floorless possibly because Mantis does have a nice layout. As some others have stated, It would be nice to see the addition (ala Maverick) of a mid course launch and new track to extend the length of the ride around the perimeter of Millenium Island. About 4300 more feet of track will do (haha). It would be nice for CP to have the longest steel coaster, something they've never had. My .02

Question to the collective memory here. Didn't they take one train off Mantis for most or all of the season, either last year or the year before? I recall seeing one train off the ride and near the station for a few occasions.

Jeff said:
You kids have no idea. It wasn't squeezed into that spot. Dragster and Millennium Force didn't even exist, and Giant Wheel was sitting where the MF queue is now. There was plenty of room to do whatever they wanted to do.

Asolutely it wasn't squeezed in, Mantis' location at the time is where CP felt was most appropriate to construct the ride... All I'm saying is that CP can't possibly like where that ride is placed and definitely puts a road block on any future developments.

Keeping Mantis' structure around, investing millions into it and running as a different ride (floorless) is a major commitment to the park's future... Commitment to the future of that single location for years to come! Seems minor, but converting this coaster.... A mid-90's model B&M twister that was originally designed to be a stand-up, is no guarantee to be a success as a sit-down version. That to me is the red light for a park of CP's stature!

Also you can't shy away from CP's critics/fans! Critics/fans that are gonna be tough judges on the finished product, with their expectations set SKY HIGH, just as they do every single year with CP! Sky high expectations due to CF's known profits, current prices at CP, current coaster line-up and the long and built up teasing they have done for next season! They almost have to be doing something substantial to avoid a PR disaster, CP has humored large projects for 2015 and have made fans wait! A lot won't be surprised if something less were to be announced, but a lot will be disappointed and rightfully so!

I've always dreamed of riding Mantis sitting down and would love to have it done, but The business side of me is saying another thing? Just seems like a nickel and dime move for CP, which doesn't seem likely from them in any situation? It's all a big game and I don't know more than anybody else here, but I do know the beans will be spilled eventually and can't wait to talk about it!

CPfan1976 said:
Just watched this POV video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeRVYWCJO0M of a B&M floorless called Kraken and I felt like I was riding Mantis with almost the exact same layout of track. Watch/compare.

Honestly, the only thing I found comparable to Mantis was that they are both B&M's..
Here is the side by side... http://www.youtubedoubler.com/?video1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%...keeper2013

The first two elements are the same and it takes the same amount of time to each the MCBR, but that is about it.

The more I study the web cams(which have been very cool this evening watching the rain and clouds and freighters heading into Sandusky)and the earth images of the plot of land in question, I am thinking that perhaps a complete re-imagining of that area might be in the works.
I say move the rail road tracks just for the heck of it and do something crazy, and maybe even throw in a "new" frontier lift!

NWLB said:
Question to the collective memory here. Didn't they take one train off Mantis for most or all of the season, either last year or the year before? I recall seeing one train off the ride and near the station for a few occasions.

For the past few(?) seasons the third train has been in a disassembled stated under the transfer track, so that's probably what you saw

samosuband said:

NWLB said:
Question to the collective memory here. Didn't they take one train off Mantis for most or all of the season, either last year or the year before? I recall seeing one train off the ride and near the station for a few occasions.

For the past few(?) seasons the third train has been in a disassembled stated under the transfer track, so that's probably what you saw

And here it is. If they can't even run the train full enough often enough to keep the original set of trains running, why not doze or re-train the thing? Annoyingly loud, painful to ride, rusting and peeling, it obviously calls for one of two solutions. Likewise, they've had a hunk of train to use to design new cars with.

*shrug*

Who said the third train was off because of ridership? Maybe it's more efficient to run two train op (see TTD's 5/6 trains). Maybe one is kept for parts for any of a number of reasons. Maybe... etc.

topthrilldragster4lyf said:
Who said the third train was off because of ridership? Maybe it's more efficient to run two train op (see TTD's 5/6 trains). Maybe one is kept for parts for any of a number of reasons. Maybe... etc.

I believe it was because of the "seat belts" that was added, creating slower loading times and stacking of the trains.

How about a new way through, using island with Millenium turns ("dino island")!
A new midway?

I'd say for anything there seems to be four different explanations and conspiracy theories.

Taking a third train offline for a year is one thing, three is another. It isn't that they didn't use it, they took it off the rails entirely, not just parking it in the station or sending it to the shop. Lines didn't get longer without it.

My core point is that clearly Mantis was so hotly in demand as to drive CP to repair and load the third train. Plus having it fully removed from the ride gave them an entire train to work with for years, if-and I'm not saying they did-need to measure and such for a new train.

We'll know soon enough I'm sure.

All I know is Cedar Point better do something epic for 2015 after all the hype they put into some awesome new attraction. Turning Mantis into a sit-down is nothing spectacular or nothing to brag about. Being or claiming to be "the roller coaster capital of the world" they need to remove that and put in a coaster that will put cp back on the map. Seems as if this year all eyes are on Carowinds and Six Flags Magic Mountain. Like I said once before CP definitely needs a 4D coaster like Dinoconda and Hybrid Woodie similar to Goliath or Outlaw Run. Its all about variety and I sure hope Tony Clark and Jason McClure read these posts. They should run a pole or a suggestion site to see what the guests are really into and want most. I wish I worked for Cedar Fair so I could get an idea what all goes on and what they have up they're sleeve. Hope CP management reads these posts and suggests our ideas.

Adrenalina Rush said:
Seems as if this year all eyes are on Carowinds and Six Flags Magic Mountain.

I'm actually more interested in what Six Flags Over Texas and Knott's Berry Farm has planned for next year. Then again, I enjoy dark rides more then coasters.

I think the tracks to the railroad will be staying where they are and possibly where the Mantis station is right now would be a good setting for a dark ride. Also look for that to be a midway that leads to the island. I don't see the dinos staying much longer.

It was said they "had" a five year plan and that it had changed already. That suggests they were looking ahead and have changed direction or altered whatever they planned on doing. No matter what, the 150th anniversary should be the center of things. For that season, regardless of what they do next year, they truly need something worthy of 150 years. Save 500 feet for that season.

In a 2013 interview Matt Oimet said the following:

"So the real challenge for the industry and for us too is we've got great thrill rides, we've got great kids rides, there's not enough in the middle. What I mean by that is rides that parents are on with their kids, but the parent is on not solely because of their kids. And so we've got to continue to work on that."

Now, he went on to say a few other things which make me believe that he was specifically referring to rides like Pipe Scream and Lake Eerie Eagles, but I think this is an interesting quote for the Mantis discussion. Some have said that Mantis won't become a floorless coaster because the conversion would create an subpar, average ride. However, I think it could result in one of those that fits toward the upper end of the "middle" rides. It may be not a TTD or MF, but it might be one that serves as a stepping stone for younger kids but enjoyable for adults as well.

In another interview Matt said that capacity was VERY important to the park, which is another reason why I don't think they're getting rid of the coaster completely. If they are then they'd need to have something to replace it with and sooner rather than later.

And I'm with Adrenalina Rush...build a ride like Dinoconda!

jsmith7300 said:
In a 2013 interview Matt Oimet said the following:

Some have said that Mantis won't become a floorless coaster because the conversion would create an subpar, average ride. However, I think it could result in one of those that fits toward the upper end of the "middle" rides.

In another interview Matt said that capacity was VERY important to the park, which is another reason why I don't think they're getting rid of the coaster completely.

I like where your going with this. +1 Like. :)

A sitdown looper as a middle ground between the almost kiddie Corkscrew and the über-intense Maverick - exactly. Giving Mantis new trains and turning an uncomfortable ride into something ridable in order to get another decade out of a large, expensive, maintenance-light coaster is the perfect solution for this ride. Name another coaster of Mantis' size and age that was removed from a still operating park. I can think of one: Drachen Fire. And Mantis isn't as rough as that Arrow piece was. Plus, Mantis is just a much better-built ride. Drachen Fire was doomed from the start.

Transforming the ride is a cheap way to get some more life out of it, and a good filler year between major new attractions. Probably 2016-17 will be the next year we'll see a brand new coaster (and no, it won't be a 500-footer).

Mantis will defiantly never be anything but a thrill ride, the forces are way too strong to fall into the family category. Even if this ride was converted it would still fall firmly in the intense category.