Kinzel: "People have to eat"

By the time his contract is up (assuming it isn't extended, again) in 2012, unless there is more turnover higher up in the hierarchy, the downward spiral may continue with his successor (if it isn't Falfas, I'll be surprised, and possibly proven wrong).

JuggaLotus said:
When we officially became GE, and had the big "Welcome to GE" meeting, he had a few remarks. And those remarks were (slightly paraphrased), "I've been with the company (X) years and I've seen lots of growth. This is a new future for the company, and so I am retiring today to allow new leadership to take it forward."

This shows the difference between a good leader and a not so good leader. He had already had his retirement planned, and he knew that his staying on COULD hinder things, and that is not what the company needed. So he stepped aside.

This is what should have happened at the Paramount deal. The old should have moved out, realizing that they had done a good job and just admired their work. Instead, they (he?) took what was nearly perfection and couldn't just stand back, he had to keep tinkering to where it is now hurting the company.

Maybe I missed the point a little/a lot. But what was suggested is the Dick Kinzel should have stepped aside because the company grew larger that he could handle. Also suggesting that this was the manner in which his company president acted. There is a big difference in the particular situation of each president.

Maybe I did miss the point. I'll let everyone here decide whether or not I did.

I was merely pointing out that you were focusing too much on the specifics of each company's situation (A buying B, versus B buying A), and too little on the basic concept of knowing when you're no longer an asset (and, in this case, when you've become a liability).

JuggaLotus said:
The point though, was that DK had been planning to retire (as far as I had heard anyway) and when this happened, he said "Oh, I need to stay on." rather than stepping aside.

If this is what happed, then you are probably correct. Dick Kinzel should have retired at that time. And I missed the point of the post. In either case, he should consider retirement now.

DJ's got it, that was basically the point, just in a few more words. Foodservice has been a hard sticking point for a long time on this site. Not just amongst those on a limited budget, but also amongst those who can afford it, but want the quality to match the price.

I'll probably still grab a gourmet pretzel at the park, but I won't be eating any meals there. Not even at FD or Friday's. Heck, I should load up a backpack with food and just pull out sandwiches when I'm hungry. I think there is a nice shady spot for a picnic outside DK's window.

^But what about your favorite Midway Market? ;) They are going to miss you there. hehehe

I'm still hoping that when they finally decide to remove that abortion of restaurant that the T's have a contest for a wrecking ball operator. I would love to take the first wall down on that building.

JuggaLotus said:
Heck, I should load up a backpack with food and just pull out sandwiches when I'm hungry. I think there is a nice shady spot for a picnic outside DK's window.

There is indeed a very nice spot outside of the window for a nice little picnic...if you do it on the 25th or 26th of this month, I may join you. ;)

Seriously though, there is a lot to be said for what has been happening inside the company lately, and I wouldn't say it is positive either.

Lord Gonchar said:
1. I'm not sure where that number comes from. The number I know is that food per caps went up 20% from 1999 (before HW started free drinks) to 2006.

If you figure an average of 3% infation yearly, the 20% increase in food per caps over those 6 years barely keeps pace with inflation.

That's not correct. That assumes the years thereafter did not also rise with inflation. 20% the first year, then 2% after that, or whatever.

2. What works for one park doesn't work for all parks. Just because it seems to have paid off for Holiday World doesn't mean instant success for other parks that get Holiday World-ized. ;)

I don't think anyone was suggesting it was instant success. Quite the opposite... we've gone over how applying the standard CF pass pricing to the PP's was a disaster.

The thing with Holiday World is that their food is, in my opinion, fairly priced. I don't feel as if I'm being gouged on food prices like I do at Cedar Point, or even at most other parks as well. Becuase of HW prices and decent food quality, I tend to eat more & thus spend more money than I would do at other parks.

One of the main reasons why I tend to not eat a lot at the park is that the majority of the QSRs do not take credit cards. I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to grab a quick snack (ie garlic fries) without having to pay $4 in ATM fees to withdraw money.

Maybe games are down, because the majority of the prizes are utter crap?

I know that the stuffed animals appeal to kids, kids bug their parents, parents play games, win stuffed animals for kids. But you can't REALLY expect those parents to play every different game. If they offered better prizes, I might actually go near the games.

Throw me on the list for games being way to expensive. If it were 2 bucks for most things I would throw 20 down the drain for the fun. But at 5 bucks a game its a pain in the ass.

In regards to MM, yes the place is very miss most of the time. But if you can eat a good amount then there isn't a better deal in the park.

As for Mr.Kinzel it's because of the higher prices for all things including your food that I am not making my normal 3 trips, Ill keep the 600 for something else. I'm not the only one.

I think this will bite DK in the ass in that people may view CPs food stands (or CP all together) like many people do oil companies. I can see people just boycotting his food due to pure principle. This does get back in some degree as we all know Tony and most likely Tyler and others watch this board.

Even if Kinzel finds out about these kinds of threads I doubt he cares one bit. If he doesn't listen to his own people when it comes to stuff like this (and I can assure you....he doesn't) then what is our $.02 cents worth to him?

Who ever approved those huge balls as prizes is a complete knuclehead. (Or brilliant since there are so many irritating the crap out of me in the park.)

I learned long ago that it isn't wise to tell Mr. Kinzel what you suspect he doesn't want to hear...even if it is 100% accurate.

When I go to the park, I usually pack a nice lunch and bring a cooler into the picnic area to eat. In the park, I enjoy eating at Johnny rockets and getting Dippen dots or elephant ears as a snack. I also ate at famous daves a few times. Panda express food is good, but I will not but those hamburger and fries meals from the midway stands, when I could go over to Johnny R's and get the same thing as a much more appetizing meal.

Just a thought, but what if Kinzel comes on here and reads this forum and sees all this we are discussing.......sshhhhhh :)

Jeff said:
That's not correct. That assumes the years thereafter did not also rise with inflation. 20% the first year, then 2% after that, or whatever.

Wait. I'm not following. Dumb it down for me.

Here's the exact quote from Will:

"Here’s the most amazing piece of information I have about our change to free unlimited soft drinks. Our food per-cap now exceeds what it was in 1999 when we last sold soft drinks. The 2006 per-cap is 20 per cent higher than our per-cap in 1999."

For the record, I dug up the info and inflation over the same period (I used June 1999 to June 2006) was a hair over 22%.

Am I totally misinterpreting the info or is that less than impressive?

...we've gone over how applying the standard CF pass pricing to the PP's was a disaster.

Exactly my much-too-subtle point. Everyone keeps going back to "Holiday World does free drinks" when the cost of food comes up. Just because it supposedly works for HW doesn't mean squat about the CF parks.

Chief Wahoo said:
Who ever approved those huge balls as prizes is a complete knuclehead. (Or brilliant since there are so many irritating the crap out of me in the park.)

I learned long ago that it isn't wise to tell Mr. Kinzel what you suspect he doesn't want to hear...even if it is 100% accurate.

They also need to inform people that they can't be taken on rides (most of the prizes can't, they're too large even for the bins). But that would reduce games spending yet again, because who want's to spend $5 to carry around a huge gorilla on their back the rest of the day? Don't even get me started on the issue of basketballs...I want to pop every single one of them I see, and that's a lot of them. Don't give them away inflated, or at all!

As for telling people in the company things they don't want to hear...its getting to be more than just Kinzel. They have a large knowledge and collaboration base at their fingertips all of the time, but because of egos and thinking no one else can be right, it remains untapped. A good read for anyone in management is the book Satisfied Customers Tell 3 Friends, Angry Customers Tell 3,000. Its very recent, and covers a lot of areas that have been discussed on here (obviously in a more general business concept) that have become hot topics.

This thread is very interesting and has caused me to do some research, mostly with seasonal workers over some beer. What has been very telling is the almost universal attitude of the seasonals hatred toward management. More specifically the perception that they are treated like dirt.

A few people I've talked to were in seasonal management, and they have had nothing but spite for the current way things are run. These are people who love the park, but are totally disillusioned with what they see as total greed from upper management. And they claim that guests are noticing a change for the worse in Cedar Point.

My interest in the park goes way back to the George Roose era, when the park was at the cutting edge of the industry. My first visit to the park was in 1962. The management back then, along with Robert Munger in later years, made Cedar Point a showcase for the industry. I really hate to say this, but I think they have lost their way. Boosting food prices to make up for shortfalls in other areas is very short sighted, but that is just one aspect where things have slipped.

On the games, does anyone think that maybe people are not playing the games because traditional carnival games just aren't that exciting to a generation that has grown up with sophisticated video games? I think they need to adapt the games to current technology and expectations. Same old, same old just doesn't cut it.

But aside from the games, the worst thing by far that I have learned is the almost universal disrespect of the seasonal workers. These are front line workers that are the face of Cedar Point to the guests. Happy workers make for good customer relations. From what I've been told, that theory seems to be somewhat lost to current management.

The Dick Kinzel era has seen some amazing rides, but what about the rest of the operation? Food for thought...

On D.K.'s list of top 100 things he concerns himself with...I doubt the seasonal workforce even shows up.

Probably the most significant item that could influence the perception of his company and it is of no interest to him...and has never been. But hey...I think Cambodia is untapped for the BUNAC program so there is always hope.