Kinzel: "People have to eat"

Theweakness is in merchandise and games and admissions per capita.Foodprices we’ve been able to pass along very easily the increasesthere andwhen people come to the park they have to eat.

This sentence could very well be interpreted as "People have to eat" but they don't "have to" play games or buy merchandise. As in, it's necessary to eat to survive, while the others are just luxuries.

It may not be as cold hearted as it first appears.

Here is my quick take on the games. I think the improved ride capacity has hurt the games midways. Back when there were fewer coasters the lines were longer and the games were a good alternative. People might be willing to spend a little more in order to do something instead of wait in long lines.

Now...lines are shorter and people can really ride more stuff throughout the day. I went by the games midways at various times throughout my recent visit and you could count on one hand the number of people I saw playing.

Now...I think they are also pricing those games way too high...which makes it even easier to skip the games...but I do think improved ride capacity is part of the equation.

CPboy77 said:
It really isn't that big of a deal to pruchase ONE overpriced meal. While I do agree the prices are ridiculous, but some are over reacting.

With my hard earn money it is.

"Back when there were fewer coasters the lines were longer and the games were a good alternative. People might be willing to spend a little more in order to do something instead of wait in long lines."-Chief Wahoo

Shhhh.... Don't say anything that might lead to the big wigs thinking to many rides are a bad thing. :)

Just in case they are listening, I'm traveling from MD and will spend six days at Cedar Point because they have so many rides. I will be bringing some food with me and will eat at the park as little as possible.

For anyone who is defending what Kinzel said, and that the food prices arn't "that bad", you obviously have some extra cash to spend. As I have said before, for a family of four food prices add up quick.

A lot of families are hurting now...bad. My family has never made a lot of extra money. Going out to a restaurant was a luxury to us. Ticket prices arn't that bad. But for a family like mine that would only get to CP once a blue moon...you want the whole experience. So it is hard to have to have that experience with a family of 4, when the food prices are so high.

You are not going to drive a couple of hours to an amusement park, maybe every few years, and look at your little kids and say, "Hey, we have to eat in our car because food prices are too high." So for a family like mine, food prices would probably put a stop to the entire trip.

This is how my dad would see it: "Yes, ticket prices arn't that bad. But then we have to pay for gas. And then there is food." One look at CP food prices and he would say, "Sorry, we can't afford that." Sure we could eat in the parking lot. But for a guy like mydad, he would have too much pride to do that. So he would see it as too expensive, and we wouldn't end up going.

I can't believe I used to idol this guy. I guess as a young nieve CP lover, I just saw him as making CP the awesome place that it is. But now that I am older, I see him for what he really is. I guess his name honestly does suit his persona, huh? ;)

Anyone can argue that he is a business man, and he has to raise prices some where. But he could have been a little bit more empathetic about it. Instead of being totally blunt by saying, "Well people have to eat." What does he care though? He isn't a lower middle class citizen. He has the big bucks to spend. Does he assume that everyone else does too? He could of at least been a bit more sensitive when speaking about the issue.

I would rather eat in my car in SC parking lot anyday, over eating crappy over priced CP food. I am sure that is what a lot of other people are going to feel too. Yes people have to eat. But it doesn't mean that they have to eat in the park.

The food prices are going to turn people away. Whether it be it turns them away by eating outside of the park. Or it turns them completely away from CP. It will turn them away.

I say let's boycot CP food. That will show him. ;) I will get off of my soap box now too. :)

^Just to be clear, I was in no way defending the prices CP charges for food. They're very unreasonable, particularly for families with children who may be on a budget. I was just offering another way to read the phrasing Kinzel used. The only person who truly knows how the words were intended were the man that spoke them.

The words were intended just as they were spoken. Had he used a more veiled phrase, then we could argue what he really meant.

As it stands, his message is crystal clear.

nulemoni, there was a lot said by a lot of people. I was just stating my opinion. But I wasn't pointing any fingers. :)

Wahoo got me thinking... what if each individual GM really had the power to experiment with food pricing? What if one even had the nuts to say, "Up the gate by four bucks, give away the soda?" What would happen? In Holiday World's case, food sales increased by 75%.

But with dad looking over every GM's shoulder, that's never going to happen. How will they continue to pay for their big roller coasters then?

I disagree with the sentiments about "its not that bad" and "people will say these things..blah blah blah"

Obviously the people saying things like this are just as narrow minded and ignorant as Kinzel himself. I wonder what would happen to these people if gas suddenly shot to five dollars a gallon, and admission to CP jumped fifteen dollars..would that wake these people up?

And, Kinzel meant every word he said. Don't try and tell me he didn't do it on purpose. The man is the ultimate definition of micro-management, and he's wearing blinders...get off the per-capita thing already! I really hope this report gets a lot of public attention, I think people need to see Kinzel for who he really is.

I don't think calling him names is productive. But, Jeff is right...empowerment is not a word embraced by D.K. Now, I do think there should be some controls in there because I'm not sure that there should be HUGE variations from one Cedar Fair park to another. I do think there should be SOME consistencies.

But, to the larger point that the GMs don't really have any real "power" to effect any real "change". I think that is very legitimate. And, that might be what is causing this sudden and, to may way of thinking...very damaging, turnover amongst some of the senior level folks.

Consistency is one thing, but ignoring the differences from one market to the next is just stupid. Cedar Fair-izing Dorney and Michigan's Adventure worked like a charm. Doing it to Geauga Lake had no impact, and imposing it on certain Paramount Parks, most notably Kings Island and Dominion with their pass pricing, was a huge failure. It's essential to adapt to each economy and culture, and I that hasn't been DK's m.o.

Yes, good points in regard to his "my way or the highway" philosophy.

I think the only thing at this point that can stem the tide that's coming if this goes on any longer (Kinzel at the helm), is for the world of CGM (consumer-generated media) to latch onto these things and run with it. Right now, amusement parks aren't getting a lot of press and attention in the high attention places like Consumerist.com, or blogs of the more powerful on the internet, where thousands of people trust the opinions and articles from the blogger. If Cedar Fair had a handle on how to properly use the new world of CGM we live in, they could dance around the issues at hand, but since they are a dinosaur of a company, they have yet to see or realize the importance of CGM, and it can (and should, now that that quote is out there) come back to bite them in the butt, hard.

Like Chief Wahoo has said, this only proves even more to me that time has long been up, and the torch needs to be passed so that the company can actually thrive and go somewhere in our economy. It is fully possible to grow despite all of the barriers in the economy today, but with the current hierarchy and leadership, it will continue to stagnate.

You know, I find it kinda funny.

Last year, the President of our company (at the time Smiths Aerospace) was planning to retire. He was grooming his replacement, and planning to retire, I think, sometime towards the end of the year.

Then, in Februrary of 07, came the bombshell news that our division (yes, the entire Aerospace division) had been sold to General Electric. He stayed on, guiding everything up to the purchase being approved by the FCC.

When we officially became GE, and had the big "Welcome to GE" meeting, he had a few remarks. And those remarks were (slightly paraphrased), "I've been with the company (X) years and I've seen lots of growth. This is a new future for the company, and so I am retiring today to allow new leadership to take it forward."

This shows the difference between a good leader and a not so good leader. He had already had his retirement planned, and he knew that his staying on COULD hinder things, and that is not what the company needed. So he stepped aside.

This is what should have happened at the Paramount deal. The old should have moved out, realizing that they had done a good job and just admired their work. Instead, they (he?) took what was nearly perfection and couldn't just stand back, he had to keep tinkering to where it is now hurting the company. It is comments like this that show just how out of touch from the everyday guest he really is.

In a way, I admire him for taking the time to walk through the park during the summer, but at the same time, it has to be done in a hands off way where employees don't feel like a slight mis-step at the time he comes by will result in being fired. From the sounds of how he micro-manages, that seems like it has happened more than once.

Jeff said:
What would happen? In Holiday World's case, food sales increased by 75%.

Two things:

1. I'm not sure where that number comes from. The number I know is that food per caps went up 20% from 1999 (before HW started free drinks) to 2006.

If you figure an average of 3% infation yearly, the 20% increase in food per caps over those 6 years barely keeps pace with inflation.

2. What works for one park doesn't work for all parks. Just because it seems to have paid off for Holiday World doesn't mean instant success for other parks that get Holiday World-ized. ;)

Well let's face it, no one should be surprised that he THINKS this way... The real shocker is that he actually let this philosophy fall out of his mouth in a public forum.

I don't think you could pay me enough to work for their PR department right now.

JuggaLotus, I think that you are mis-characterizing the President of a comany situation. I am NOT defending Dick Kinzel in any way. Your company was TAKEN over by GE. Ceder Fair TOOK over Paramount. Most often the President of the company being taken over and many of the higher officers are the ones to go. Being that DK was the president of the compant doing the taking over he would be the most likely one to remain in charge of the NEW company group, and then replace the old president and company officers after the takeover was completed.

Your company president made a decision in advance of the finalization of the take over by GE. Did he make this decision because he was working on the merger and knew he would not be retained? Or did he decide prior that he was retiring and stayed on long enough to assist with the merger? Only he knows. It really doesn't matter.

All that being said, DK has made a lot of mistakes with this new group of parks. Yes, he does micro-manage. This is a real problem. Each park manager needs to be able to make decisions that related to the his/her park. They are the ones who are present every day at the park and better able to determine what the park needs or should do. Major decisions, like the purchase of a new coaster should probably go through corporate (Cedar Fair). Other decisions like specific park pricing, food pricing, parking etc. should be handled by the specific park manager.

With DK there, that probably will not happen. As was stated earlier, what works at one park, does not necessarily work at another park. Each market is DIFFERENT and requires different strategies and decisions. Again, these decisions are best handled by the specific park manager.

You totally missed the point of John's anecdote.

The point is that a good leader knows when its time to step aside and let better-suited people take the reins. That time passed Dick long ago, and is coming around for its 3rd or 4th lap.

Actually, the man who took over for him, became president of the Aviation division. So, it was our leadership that was kept in place. No, he was at retirement age, and I'm not sure how much involvement senior management had prior to the announcement. He stayed on to see Smiths Aerospace to its end, and when it became GE Aviation (a new division within GE) he stepped aside.

The point though, was that DK had been planning to retire (as far as I had heard anyway) and when this happened, he said "Oh, I need to stay on." rather than stepping aside. That was the first mistake, and sadly not the last. I still love the park, but it is comments like this concerning an area of the park that is just downright BAD that I don't like.