Kinzel Kups seem to be history

Ffej said:
DJ: I was estimating $4 for drinks and $6 parking.

Parking is already included in the season pass. So the free soda concept would only add $16 to the pass, even if you ignore HW's data and substitute your guess. The CF season pass is already an absurd value, so adding even $20 with free drinks would be a huge win, in my opinion. I suspect many would share that view.

In other words, are Cedar Fair guests going to start lunging at $15 subs because they don't have to pay for drinks? They really might have to change more variables to make things work.

Why? As Dave pointed out with HW's data, nothing needs to change for a free soda program to be a benefit for the park, beyond adding the average soda per cap (rounded up) to the gate price. It really can be that simple. The park wins by making more money, and guests win because they feel they're getting a good value.

The regular passes currently do not include parking. Adding parking to these passes would bring them closer to the Platinum Pass price. If parking did get rolled into admission I would not be surprised if these passes would go away and all that would be left is Platinum.

I think Ffej was playing off of Dave's comment that an unexpected side benefit to having free drinks at HW was that they saw an increase in in-park food purchases. If CP had free drinks would more people feel OK with a $15 sub?

I struggle with adding the cost of free drinks to my pass. We buy a couple of $4 Gatorades if it is a hot day. We don't spend $80/year on drinks ($20/pass x 4) so there is a loss of value from my perspective. But I have to believe I am in the minority when it comes to how little pop we drink. Although if the numbers from HW that Dave referenced, < 1 drink per customer, then maybe there are more people who don't drink that stuff than I think.

But I do see the perceived value that many people would see.

Yeah, I'm not sure what CP's price is, but I paid $30 for a whole pizza at Canada's Wonderland this year. If drinks were free at CP, I'd still leave the park and head to C&M's to get better pizza and save some money.

I'm not sure that "free" parking and "free" drinks is going to fix the feeling of being ripped off on food and other items for your average guest. The handle and blades concept would still be in effect.

I'd like to see Cedar Fair test a park with Knoebels' food and drink pricing. Knoebels managed to get $30-40 out of me in food and drinks in about 5 hours, and I never felt ripped off in the slightest. I was happy to support a park that seemed fair all around.

Holiday World food prices are also very reasonable.

This is a basic function of profit maximization. Ideally, CF would price it's food and other for-sale items and services such that they maximize profit, which does not necessarily mean those prices achieve the highest sales volume. This is Econ 101. Just a derivative function, figuring out where marginal profit gets infinitely close to zero.

I am a unit holder, and I want to see maximum value returned for my investment. That is CF's obligation to me, and other unit holders.

Of course, one cannot look at hot dog profit, or burger profit, or anything else in a vacuum, because many of these items are utilized in substitution rather than complimentary. Thus, although the function to maximize profit is a very simple one, coming up with unit prices in the bigger scheme of overall food and beverage service, for example, must be infinitely more difficult. Solving simultaneous equations, with too many variables...

I trust that the decision makers at CF have access to a whole lot more data (and time to analyze it) than any of us, so I would say we should just man up, buy our $3.99 sodas (or not), and quit pretending that we have any of the answers. Even though it's fun to pretend!

MaverickLaunch said:
the decision makers at CF

And finally that can be written as a plural.

They've had data for years... It doesn't mean anyone was empowered to act on it.

At MiA they give both. Some stands will give the tiny cups, others will give large cups with ice. I never knew they gave free water until this year.

I think they should include free drinks, but only if the park admission is going to go up $4. If it were to raise lets say $10, I wouldn't want them to do it.

Ffej said:
I'm not sure that "free" parking and "free" drinks is going to fix the feeling of being ripped off on food and other items for your average guest. The handle and blades concept would still be in effect.

So, regardless of how the park prices things (low gate price with high soda & parking, versus high gate price with free soda & parking), the guest is going to feel ripped off?

I don't agree at all. I think MaverickLaunch had a good point - paying the low gate price, on top of parking, only to find $3 or $4 soda in the park can have a repetitively negative effect on a guest's experience. By contrast, free parking and free, all-you-can-drink soda leaves a good impression that lasts long after the initial, brief encounter with the higher gate price.

It's more in line with an all-inclusive resort. I don't mind paying a premium price for a premium experience, but I'd rather not be reminded every hour or so that I'm paying a premium price.

This is purely anecdotal, but in my experience most complaints fall along the lines of "it's expensive enough to get in, but then they rip you off once inside." That, to me at least, indicates more displeasure with in park pricing than the gate pricing.