Jr gemini derails. (also: Maverick restraint design)

mk522 said:
So then Walt, whats the reason Jr. Gemini had problems, since clearly, people like Ralph (a disgruntled employee) and speculation about budget cut backs is purely based on missing evidence, so please do tell us, Walt, whats the reason?

Woah woah woah, back that train up. Disgruntled? I resent that. I love that place to death, let's be absolutely clear on that. And I love working there beyond anything else. I'm not saying I agree with everything they do, and I'm certainly not claiming I know anything about any incidents that have occurred. Nobody here knows what's really going on, I simply offered my own personal theory, which is probably just as wrong as everyone else's theories.

Spit said:
There are multiple levels of fail safe measures on these complex machines that protect the riders from injury.

A ride doesn't know if someone is sitting on their lapbar when the train is sent. It also can't tell if the wheel assembly has a fatigue crack. A ride doesn't know if there is a crack on the track. There are a lot of things that rides themselves don't know about. Rides are stupid. They can only do what they are programmed to do.

It takes people to inspect these things and find problems. It could be a ride host that checks restraints and can hear funny noises. Or it could be a supervisor that gives a write up for a safety violation. It could be a maintenance guy that makes inspections. Also it could be a state inspector who ensures that the rides follow certain standards. People make the ride safe, not the ride itself. A ride typically can't do much more than run, ensure that the gates aren't open, and keep trains from running into each other. On occasion they even have trouble with that.

You make a good point Jump. It's interesting how many people think that most coasters have "computers" that don't let the train dispatch without lapbars down, etc.... Heck, Millennium can dispatch with everybody sitting in the train with no seatbelts and lapbars up.

However, I wouldn't call the rides "stupid". Today's coasters have massive amounts of technology that goes into ensuring a safe ride. Some coasters *cough*Dragster*cough* have too much technology, and that actually leads to more downtime.

I do agree with you though, that there is a big chunk of responsibility that still falls on the inspectors and the maintenence crews, as well as the seasonal employees who check your restraints to make sure your ride is completely safe.

Sorry, but anyone chalking up any incident to "budget cuts" is full of crap unless they are privy to the actual budget. You have no idea what you're talking about.

You people are missing the big picture. How can so many things go wrong at various parks? I'll tell you. Sabatoge. For years Six Flags has taken it on the chin about they way their parks are operated. So now they're sticking it to the man. Now their attendence and reputation will flourish.

*Todays post is brough to you by the letter S and the word sarcasm*

Jeff said:
You have no idea what you're talking about.

Aside from err to the safe side, are you any different?

Bwahahaha

Do the words Black Helicopter mean anything? :)

Ralph, I wasn't calling you disgruntled in seriousness, that was sarcasm. Apologies.

Furthermore, I don't care if you have inside access to the park or not, it doesn't matter. People speculate and have their own opinions about what might have caused this or that.

CP's budget cuts do affect their rides in all aspects, and you don't have to be a VIP or past employee to know that. Themeing comes to mind, or trains that show peeling paint, or employees that just don't care because they're underpaid and overworked. If the maintenance team suddenly goes from having 200 hours a week to budget in ride inspections to 100, I'm pretty sure somethings going to get missed, eventually.

Now Jr. Gemini may have had this coming for a long time, it may have been dumb luck, or a small part may have been increasing strain on the inspections, who knows. Its annoying to hear: "you don't know what you're talking about" because what, you know exactly what happened? No, you don't. You weren't at the park when it happened, you didn't work the ride when it happened, and you certainly weren't on the train when it did "derail".

As was mentioned before, no one was hurt. Rides breaking down are bad enough, but so long as no one gets hurt, then CP gets the lucky end of the deal.
*** Edited 6/20/2007 5:22:55 PM UTC by mk522***

My friend was working at it when it happened, and the front did come off the track, they stopped the train on the lift and let everyone off. I guess some parents were yelling their kid could have died.
*** Edited 6/20/2007 8:50:59 PM UTC by Ryan06***

If you are still working at the park this summer, I wouldn't be talking about the incident if I were you...

Just a friendly recommendation.

He didn't give any specifics, he just confirmed the incident happened. I don't think you can make a fuss about that.

If it was info the park had released, it wouldn't be so bad, but there has been no official release from the park regarding this incident.

CP is very leery of their employees talking about incidents to the general public.

I see, I see...

I wonder why nothing has been mentioned publicly about this. Just because it's a kiddie ride it doesn't get the attention Magnum received? How are those that go to the park JUST to ride Jr. Gemini going to know it's closed??

CP will normally have signs posted at the toll booths saying which rides will be closed. Also they will normally note things on the "Today in the Park" page, however it currently says all rides are scheduled to be in operation.

In addition, it is very rare that someone would travel a long distance solely for CP's children's areas, let alone Jr Gemini, unless it was a crazed enthusiast who wanted to gaze upon Intamin's first coaster.

*** Edited 6/20/2007 7:38:04 PM UTC by Josh M.***

Talking about potential impacts of budget cuts is certainly valid.

Talking about what could have led to a mechanical failure is valid.

Assuming or speculating that budget cuts led to THIS mechanical failure is a little premature given the fact that there are no facts out there to review.

Disney had this issue a couple two or three years ago when former Disney mechanics were online talking about budget cuts and then there were several incidents (Big Thunder, the Riverboat death) that happened around the same time. There you had some historical data to make the conversation a little more valid.

I was in the park last Thursday and spent some time in Camp Snoopy but missed this incident. I can say that, in general, I found the park to be looking good, rides operating as expected, staff mostly positive, etc.

I understand they now hire something like 1400 foreign employees which equates to somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of their seasonal workforce. That was pretty stunning. But, it doesn't have anything to do with budgets (unless you want to make the argument that they aren't paying what American kids are willing to work for or they aren't providing a work/living experience American kids expect).

Accidents are going to happen no matter how thorough they are. It will seem more glaring for the next year or two as the sheer increase in parks statistically will increase the number of "Cedar Fair" accidents.

Now, if anyone can tie budget cuts to maintenance problems LEGITIMATELY instead of just irresponsibly then you won't have to make an argument because I will be WAY out ahead of you in criticizing the company... as a fan, a father, and a unitholder.

I shoulda put a smiley.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is if the ride is still closed, then why hasn't anything come out in the media? Generally, a derailment should be a big deal, whether it be on Raging Wolf Bobs, Jr. Gemini or whatever. Maybe since nobody was hurt, it's easy to avoid the negative exposure, of which Cedar Point and Cedar Fair has gotten more than enough of this year already. I know it's a kiddie ride and it's not what brings people to the park, but I think it deserves some attention. It's a roller coaster just like the rest of them.
*** Edited 6/20/2007 7:52:50 PM UTC by ramboozle***

I suppose it is possible that few, if any riders were on at the time. Or, perhaps there were riders but not in the front car.

When I was there Thursday evening my son rode several rides all by himself or with just another child or two. It wasn't a crowded day and most of the folks I saw were kids in school groups. Camp Snoopy and Kiddy Kingdom were like ghost towns. I overheard one Kiddy Kingdom ride op say less than 30 kids had been on her ride the entire day.

In other words, if noone was hurt or even inconvenienced by it...why bring attention to the situation publicly? When one of my City Vehicles is in an accident I don't do a press release about it.

Wait, you mean you don't advertise to the tax payers (shareholders) that an accident has occurred on their dime and is going to cost another one of their dimes to fix?

You're kidding right?

;)

I brought my two year old to CP Monday through Weds with the express purpose of getting my Jr. Gemini credit and it was closed the whole time :( At least now I know why (derailed due to budget cuts :) ).

TAER IT DOWN!!111!1!11!11

Well, the taxpayers (of which I am one since I live and work in the same community) pay for our insurance premiums...which cover the repairs to our vehicles. But no...I don't do press releases when those accidents happen...not that they happen often mind you.

:-)

I'm not sure why CP and amusment parks in general are held to a higher standard. It is "sexy" news I guess.