If you could choose new coaster
If Cedar Point has a weakness, it would be in the wooden department. They definitely could use a good twister. While CCI has some good stuff out there, GCI has some real rippers, 2 of which can be found at Hersheypark, a place that doesn't have to take a back seat to anybody. But, once again, if CP would let Mean Streak perform up to it's potential, things might not be as lacking in that area.
Steel is for sure the strong hold at CP, however they are lacking a bit in, oh, how should I say this? Upside down coasters. Out of 14, only 3 of Cp's coasters go upside down. Then, when you factor out the Corkscrew as not being one of the big guns, you only have 2 worth riding. The inverted Raptor and the stand-up Mantis are awesome but they need complimented with a more traditional style, multi-element sit down. And of course, it would be big.
*** This post was edited by Superstew on 9/26/2000. ***
*** This post was edited by Superstew on 9/28/2000. *** *** This post was edited by Superstew on 9/28/2000. ***
Steel is for sure the strong hold at CP, however they are lacking a bit in, oh, how should I say this? Upside down coasters. Out of 14, only 3 of Cp's coasters go upside down. Then, when you factor out the Corkscrew as not being one of the big guns, you only have 2 worth riding. The inverted Raptor and the stand-up Mantis are awesome but they need complimented with a more traditional style, multi-element sit down. And of course, it would be big.
*** This post was edited by Superstew on 9/26/2000. ***
*** This post was edited by Superstew on 9/28/2000. *** *** This post was edited by Superstew on 9/28/2000. ***
CCI "has some good stuff out there," ????????
Can I nominate this for understatement of the year?!
Sit-down loopers are pretty lame as far as I'm concerned. If you're gonna give me a sit-down coaster, give me a nice, non-looping hypercoaster with some ejector air. But I think CP already has enough hypercoasters. As a matter of fact, I think CP has enough steel already. Floorlesses are gimmicks, IMO, and to bother with one would kinda be stupid on CP's part. B&M for the most part do not excite me at all. Well, that isn't entirely true, I still love to ride Raptor and Alpie and AC and Montu and such....but I think too many more B&M machines would start to get redundant unless they come up with some new elements or something not as gimmicky as just more or less placing some inverted coaster seats on top of a track. I will reserve to comment on a TA2K until after I ride Hypersonic XLC, so with that in mind I think the best option for Cedar Point is a nice wooden coaster from CCI. A good out and back with some killer airtime would come close to completing CP's mission which appears to be providing a variety of rollercoaster thrills for everyone. As it is right now, those of us who prefer wooden coasters have to stick to the mock-wooden feel of the Magnum XL-200 or the fun, but not fun enough to ride too many times Blue Streak.
-------------
Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
Can I nominate this for understatement of the year?!
Sit-down loopers are pretty lame as far as I'm concerned. If you're gonna give me a sit-down coaster, give me a nice, non-looping hypercoaster with some ejector air. But I think CP already has enough hypercoasters. As a matter of fact, I think CP has enough steel already. Floorlesses are gimmicks, IMO, and to bother with one would kinda be stupid on CP's part. B&M for the most part do not excite me at all. Well, that isn't entirely true, I still love to ride Raptor and Alpie and AC and Montu and such....but I think too many more B&M machines would start to get redundant unless they come up with some new elements or something not as gimmicky as just more or less placing some inverted coaster seats on top of a track. I will reserve to comment on a TA2K until after I ride Hypersonic XLC, so with that in mind I think the best option for Cedar Point is a nice wooden coaster from CCI. A good out and back with some killer airtime would come close to completing CP's mission which appears to be providing a variety of rollercoaster thrills for everyone. As it is right now, those of us who prefer wooden coasters have to stick to the mock-wooden feel of the Magnum XL-200 or the fun, but not fun enough to ride too many times Blue Streak.
-------------
Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
Point well taken Backstreet Girl. At least the part about CCI having some good stuff out there as being the understatement of the year. Allow me to rephrase. CCI has some great, totally butt-kickin stuff out there!! How's that? What I was trying to to get across, is that while CCI really rocks, it's GCI that seems to specialize in twisters and that's what CP needs more than an out and back. And by all means, that's not to say, CCI couldn't do the job. Also, let's just say they put in a wooden twister as their next coaster. Then what? You're pretty much out of options as far as wood goes unless you want to start getting redundant. So that leaves steel. If CP has to many of those, then I guess they're done building coasters. Everyone knows that you have way more flexibility with steel, so in the immortal words of Dave Mustaine from Megadeth, where do we go from here?
If I could take all the great wooden coasters and put them in one park and then take all the great steel coasters and put them in one park...I think the park with the wooden coasters would beat out the steel one by far. Wooden coasters, by nature, almost always have more personality than steel coasters. ESPECIALLY B&Ms and Intamins (which, don't get me wrong, I love...but...) Two wooden coasters can both be classified as twisters, but give a completely different ride. And why would we say CP doesn't need an out and back? I think CP definitely needs an out and back!
And as for saying they have enough steel, so that was a little drastic, yeah. But still, IMO they should concentrate their energies on woodies for a bit. You really don't have *that* many more options with steel, unless you count inversions, which I am just not a big fan of anyway. And even then, there are only so many ways you can go upside down and sideways, and B&M has overdone every single one of them already.
-------------
Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
Gimme a woodie any day. ;o)
And as for saying they have enough steel, so that was a little drastic, yeah. But still, IMO they should concentrate their energies on woodies for a bit. You really don't have *that* many more options with steel, unless you count inversions, which I am just not a big fan of anyway. And even then, there are only so many ways you can go upside down and sideways, and B&M has overdone every single one of them already.
-------------
Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
Gimme a woodie any day. ;o)
The fact of the matter is this. CP has a wooden out and back in the Blue Streak. They also have that big bloak known as the Mean Streak, which in all reality is just a huge circle that changes directions once. BUT!, if you had to classify it as either an out and back or a twister, it would go under the out and back category first. Also, no matter what label you want to put on them, the Magnum and Gemini both, are nothing more than out and backs. Even if you classify 2 or even 4 coasters in the same category, yes they might give a different ride to some extent but the over all concept is exactly the same, so where's the logic? CEDAR POINT HAS ENOUGH OUT AND BACKS, PERIOD!! The issue is, what do they need? The consensus seems to be wood. Very good. So then if variety is the bottom line, then commmon sense tells you, that since CP does not have a twister, then just maybe, that would be the next best choice.
As far as steel goes. The statistics don't lie. Whether you like going upside down or not, CP still comes up short in this area. Do the math. 3 out of 14. That's just a little lop-sided. Remember, variety is the key. That's what keeps people happy and spending their money, which translates into guess what? More coasters. If you're tired of B&M and Intamin, then try somebody else, that's the beauty of this business. *** This post was edited by Superstew on 9/28/2000. ***
As far as steel goes. The statistics don't lie. Whether you like going upside down or not, CP still comes up short in this area. Do the math. 3 out of 14. That's just a little lop-sided. Remember, variety is the key. That's what keeps people happy and spending their money, which translates into guess what? More coasters. If you're tired of B&M and Intamin, then try somebody else, that's the beauty of this business. *** This post was edited by Superstew on 9/28/2000. ***
And 2 out of 14 (wooden) isn't lop-sided? Plus, I don't consider Mean Streak to be any sort of out-and-back. Definitely definitely twister. Did I mention it's definitely a twister? And Blue Streak, yes, is an out-and-back. But it's an OLD out and back. So what? Magnum is a hypercoaster. Technically, so is Millennium Force. How many years apart were they? 11? Let's see, we can either get an out-and-back 37 years after the last out-and-back was built, or we can get something that flips 5 years after the last coaster that flips (Mantis).
Even with your twisted reasoning that Mean Streak is an out and back...hey, what did they do two years after Magnum? Anyway, I'm definitely on the "Give us a CCI out and back" train.
-------------
Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
Loves woodies. :o)
Even with your twisted reasoning that Mean Streak is an out and back...hey, what did they do two years after Magnum? Anyway, I'm definitely on the "Give us a CCI out and back" train.
-------------
Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
Loves woodies. :o)
For all of those who DON'T know what an out-n-back is, here is an explicit description of an out-and-back rollercoaster. The out-and-back roller coaster layout was derived from the original Switchback Railway. The layout is a severely elongated oval in which the train goes out to a turnaround and then returns to the
station. The truest form of this would have no other curves besides the turnaround. Sometimes a dog leg is added, giving the ride a vaguely L-shape.
A Twister Rollercoaster is just like it sounds. The configuration of a twister Rollercoaster is varied and has multiple turns in different directions. It does go out and back, but every coaster does that. If you want an example of a Twister Rollercoaster, look at the Coney Island Cyclone.
The human Rollercoaster glossary has spoken.
-------------
Corey
Snake River Crew '00
station. The truest form of this would have no other curves besides the turnaround. Sometimes a dog leg is added, giving the ride a vaguely L-shape.
A Twister Rollercoaster is just like it sounds. The configuration of a twister Rollercoaster is varied and has multiple turns in different directions. It does go out and back, but every coaster does that. If you want an example of a Twister Rollercoaster, look at the Coney Island Cyclone.
The human Rollercoaster glossary has spoken.
-------------
Corey
Snake River Crew '00
Honestly, who cares? Six Flags Ohio put in an out-and-back this year even though they had Big Dipper. I don't see anyone saying, "I wish they hadn't built Villain, how pointless was that." Cedar Point has three Arrow mine trains as well, what's the big deal?
The fact is, out-and-back designs afford a lot of space efficiency. Magnum and Blue Streak, heck even Raptor, don't use a ton of space due to fairly narrow profiles.
Now let's look at available space... Ride Space Spiral. Look down at the midway up to the convention center. Now look left through the play ground to the back of Pagoda. Remove Oceana buildings and playground. That's a big "L" shape large enough for a midway and a ride.
That's all I'm sayin'.
-------------
Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 43
The fact is, out-and-back designs afford a lot of space efficiency. Magnum and Blue Streak, heck even Raptor, don't use a ton of space due to fairly narrow profiles.
Now let's look at available space... Ride Space Spiral. Look down at the midway up to the convention center. Now look left through the play ground to the back of Pagoda. Remove Oceana buildings and playground. That's a big "L" shape large enough for a midway and a ride.
That's all I'm sayin'.
-------------
Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 43
In my opinion, anything that's wooden and a coaster that goes to CP is a great addition. Blue Streak is great, but can seem like a children's coaster after you get off Raptor. Mean Streak... well, I find it to be slow, rough, and for the most part, boring. (It does have it's great spots, though, like a nice headchopper or two.)
Besides! Seriously, now, isn't any new coaster (wood or steel, twister or out-and-back, etc.) a good addition? If it's going to go into an area that's otherwise (for the most part) unused and unpopular, anything new will spruce it up. Especially with that elusive boardwalk.
-------------
How dare you vanquish the Steel Phantom without his consent? Fear the Phantom's Revenge.
Besides! Seriously, now, isn't any new coaster (wood or steel, twister or out-and-back, etc.) a good addition? If it's going to go into an area that's otherwise (for the most part) unused and unpopular, anything new will spruce it up. Especially with that elusive boardwalk.
-------------
How dare you vanquish the Steel Phantom without his consent? Fear the Phantom's Revenge.
I think Jeff eluded to the space CP's new coaster in 2002 will occupy. He's given that example a few times now. He knows something. That also confirms a lot of our beliefs that Peanuts Playground will be gone soon, and I don't think we will shed any tears over that.
As far as whether Mean Streak is an out-and-back or a twister, it's pointless to argue about it because it's not really either in the true sense. There are no helixes, making the argument of a twister invalid. It's closer to an out-and-back, but not like Blue Streak, Big Dipper or even Magnum, which are true out-and-backs. Bottom line, who cares!
As far as whether Mean Streak is an out-and-back or a twister, it's pointless to argue about it because it's not really either in the true sense. There are no helixes, making the argument of a twister invalid. It's closer to an out-and-back, but not like Blue Streak, Big Dipper or even Magnum, which are true out-and-backs. Bottom line, who cares!
You don't necessarily need a helix to make a coaster a twister. I care, thank you.
Jeff, what do you classify it as on coasterbuzz? Oh, a twister. Okay. Just wondering.
It's certainly not an out-and-back-and-out-and-back-and-out-and-back which is what it would have to be. There's no real out-and-back turnaround, just banked or unbanked turns as the case may be that gently (with all the trim brakes) take you around the oval.
-------------
Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
Jeff, what do you classify it as on coasterbuzz? Oh, a twister. Okay. Just wondering.
It's certainly not an out-and-back-and-out-and-back-and-out-and-back which is what it would have to be. There's no real out-and-back turnaround, just banked or unbanked turns as the case may be that gently (with all the trim brakes) take you around the oval.
-------------
Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
I believe Mean Streak is more accurately defined as a Cyclone, but that in itself is a form of Twister.
Blue Streak is a very classical out and back.
There are double out and backs and dogleg out and backs as well.
- - - - -
Jeff, But SFO has a twister, as well. Indeed, one about as reputable as MS. =)
Blue Streak is a very classical out and back.
There are double out and backs and dogleg out and backs as well.
- - - - -
Jeff, But SFO has a twister, as well. Indeed, one about as reputable as MS. =)
Thanks net, I've been to Hersheypark. Don't need to tell me what a GOOD twister is or where to find one. Also, the Legend, Gwazi, Knoebels Twister, etc etc are even better examples of wooden twisters.
Mean Streak is a poor example of a rollercoaster in the first place, obviously it's going to be a bad representative of whatever type of wooden coaster it is. Just like Raging Wolf Bobs, eh Bill?
Bottom line is I still don't know how this guy says CP has enough wooden out-and-back coasters. It just doesn't make sense.
-------------
Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
Track record up to 115
Mean Streak is a poor example of a rollercoaster in the first place, obviously it's going to be a bad representative of whatever type of wooden coaster it is. Just like Raging Wolf Bobs, eh Bill?
Bottom line is I still don't know how this guy says CP has enough wooden out-and-back coasters. It just doesn't make sense.
-------------
Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
Track record up to 115
I think that the "L" in the park just re-affirms my belief that Cedar Point will get a wooden twister. Cedar Fair already has a twister in the layout of an "L", called Ghostrider, and I believe Cedar Fair liked the outcome of that ride. So I wouldn't be suprised if Cedar Point got a clone of it, but that's not Cedar Point's sytle, so I think they will make a better ride in the same area. I believe it will be made by CCI or CGI. I believe this will further the variety of roller coasters at Cedar Point.
Ride Manufacturers - Roller Coasters:
Intamin - Millennium Force, Jr. Gemini
Vekoma - Woodstock Express
B&M - Mantis, Raptor
Curtis D. Summers/Dinn - Mean Streak
ITEC Productions (effects) - Disaster Transport
Arrow - Magnum, Iron Dargon, Gemini, Corkscrew, Cedar Creek Mine Ride
Anton Schwarzkopf - Wildcat
Philadelphia Toboggan Company - Blue Streak
*** This post was edited by CP_bound on 9/29/2000. ***
Ride Manufacturers - Roller Coasters:
Intamin - Millennium Force, Jr. Gemini
Vekoma - Woodstock Express
B&M - Mantis, Raptor
Curtis D. Summers/Dinn - Mean Streak
ITEC Productions (effects) - Disaster Transport
Arrow - Magnum, Iron Dargon, Gemini, Corkscrew, Cedar Creek Mine Ride
Anton Schwarzkopf - Wildcat
Philadelphia Toboggan Company - Blue Streak
*** This post was edited by CP_bound on 9/29/2000. ***
Do we have you fired up a little? Let me ask this?. Where did I say, CP has enough WOODEN out and backs? I said out and backs, period. I did not single out wood. What part of what I've been saying don't you understand? Here it is one more time..... Give me a wooden coaster or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5. Just make the first one a twister. CP does not have one of those. Does that make any sense at all to anyone else, or is it just my twisted reasoning? Which by the way, where did I say that the Mean Streak is an out and back? That's a naughty naughty on the miss quotes. I said, if MS had, that's had, to be classified as one or the other, it's definitely TWISTED in the shape of an out and back. OH, before I forget. The Legend, Gwazi, Knoebels Twister, ect ect are even better examples of wooden twisters than what? Hersheyparks Wildcat! Or maybe even Lightning Racer? It was sounding to me like you knew a little bit about coasters until you made that statement. WOW! Girl, what are you smoking?
Closed topic.