How could the park extend its operating season?

This thread and just about any involving PointGuru makes my eyes bleed.

I suggest we fire Matt Ouimet put PointGuru in his place, use a fleet of large helicopters to lift the peninsula and move it to the Myrtle Beach area so we can have him run it year round. I hear that Willy Wonka has been breeding Oompa Loompa's and has enough to staff the park year round at no cost to anyone, therefore we can reduce the admission fee to a button and some pocket lint. We can give fast passes to everyone for free so that everyone can cut in line in front of everyone. We will save so much on the cost of building regular queues that we can build a large umbrella to cover the park so that no one ever has a rainy day at the park.

Of course every visitor would receive a puppy and a unicorn just for showing up.

Even with all of this, some will still complain about the $6 processing fee for processing your pocket lint and button online.

LOL!!!

That's funny stuff; but, you may be onto something with a couple of those ideas.

As far as staffing. Cedar Point does have an advantage with the employee housing situation they have. A lot of parks don't have any. They could offer full time year round employment to some and offer the greatly discounted cost of leaving and not pay as much in wages. I'm not expecting anyone to work their whole career and live in the dorms but you would get more stable employees than depending on seasonal all the time.

The problem with year around employment is that you have to pay overtime when your employees are racking up 75 hours a week, as opposed to the suck it, you still get minimum wage for those hours policy the park has now with seasonals.

Unfortunately, Cedar Point exists in the real world. Oversimplistic solutions aren't even passing the sniff test on a fan site. It's easy to sprinkle some fairy dust, build a Ferris wheel in Roller Coaster Tycoon, then proclaim, "of course it would work!"

The first clue should be that each flaw presented is quickly met with an all-too-easy answer. So, you've not only figured out what has eluded every seasonal amusement park in the United States, but you've got every possible wrinkle ironed out!

Cedar Point found out in 1994 that no one wants to travel to a cold peninsula in the middle of winter. The idea of visiting the park in the winter only appeals to hardcore enthusiasts. And, as ARN&R taught us, that group makes up an insignificant portion of all visitors.

The myth that a longer season equals higher attendance can be quickly disproved by simply looking at the data over the last 20 years. While there hasn't been an attendance boost from introducing HalloWeekends, Cedar Point did find a revenue boost. But HalloWeekends has the built-in advantage of not only the rapidly growing popularity of Halloween, but a better than average shot at good weather. And it comes at a price. There are a number of staffing issues, demonstrated by the heavy reliance on fundraising (if only they knew they could hire a gaggle of full-timers!). And Mean Streak doesn't close for the season early so that it can have some time to itself.

The PointGuru said:
They could offer full time year round employment to some and offer the greatly discounted cost of leaving and not pay as much in wages.

Great, now "Guru" is suggesting hiring homeless off the streets to staff the park, because those would be the only people interested in working for peanuts in order to live full time in greatly discounted employee housing.

Amusement parks are warm weather venues. They are about summertime fun, not freezing in 45 degree temperatures in March in Ohio. Someone mentioned that skiers don't complain about the cold. Very true, I'm a skier and I look forward to cold and snow. That is why skiing is a WINTER sport. I wouldn't look forward to eating a funnel cake at the park while watching ice boaters sail their craft on the bay, all while bundled up in winter cloths.

Halloweekends works because it offers different and fun attractions, and the weather during Sept. and Oct is actually pretty good in Ohio. Much better than typical weather in March and April.

As far as maintenance workers, well the off season is already their busy time and from what I understand they need every minute they get now to get everything ready for the new season. If the park did extend the season, some rides would have to be down for overhaul and that would further discourage people from attending.

Fun in the warm sun, coasters, swimming, boating, shorts, t-shirts, flip-flops, cool drinks, Bubbles bar and the beach. That's what I think of when I think of CP. We can already enjoy these things spread over six months of the year at CP. Going to CP in late fall, late winter and early spring just does not sound very appealing to me and I bet a lot of other people. Pointguru, your ideas are bound to be miserable failures.

(Sigh)

First, I only started this thread because I thought it may be fun to discuss ways it could work. In my very first post I indicated the only way I could see it working was if the park were to hire a skeleton crew of full time year round personnel to run a limited operations in the park. I later posted that even the notion of such a thing was far fetched. I still maintain it's not impossible and could be profitable if done right.

I have no idea how Pete, Walt, and others got any idea that I thought it would be a good idea to open the park in freezing conditions or in the dead of winter. I opened this thread as a spin off of the "wind causing havoc" thread when there was a lot of talk about rain checks. I still say that rain checks aren't such a bad ideas in certain situations. The entire basis of my theory is the park would take advantage if the many nice weather days the park currently squanders in late-March, April, and early May. The park could use rain checks to their advantage and actually increase revenue in my theory. Anyone who lives in Ohio knows the weather in spring is not that drastically worse than the fall. That is just a ridiculous argument. The only worse argument is that other people on the site throw out an illogical excuse that are easily refuted as to why it wouldn't work and that is some kind of evidence that extending the season wouldn't work.

The undeniable fact is the park did expand its operating season before and it was very successful. They managed to find a way to make it work by finding other ways to staff the park. As crazy as the idea of extending the operating season may seem to some, it is easily a better idea and it is no more crazy than paying $6 for a service fee that delivers no service or paying $18 for food that a homeless person would turn down.

I'm not saying I have all the answers or even that I'm right all the time. Parks try different ideas and concepts all the time. Some are better than others, some work out and some don't. I was not aware the park tried being open during the winter in 1994. That was a stupid idea. Being open on a gorgeous spring day in April, that is a great idea that would make money. Figuring out how to make it happen is the hard part but could be done. Having better customer service and providing coupons or rain checks to customers on bad weather days is a good idea for business. Just because management may have to work harder is not a justifiable excuse.

Mavericklaunch thanks his lucky stars he did not ever have the chance to hire TPG (OP) to work in his organization.

This guy just reeks of idealism and a general lack of any common sense.

I, for one, have had enough of his idiotic posts.

Mav, your cool. I appreciate your thoughts and post. I would take issue to your characterization of some of my post (kind of harsh) but that is your opinion and what the heck, this is the internet. Maybe one day I will bump into you in the park and I will buy you a corn dog and we can hit a couple of coasters together. We can just enjoy the park and talk politics or other things we could agree upon. Until then, enjoy my insightful post if for nothing else but to increase your perception of superiority.

Dude, it's not superiority.

Has there been ONE person on here to validate or agree with any of the statements you have made in the last couple week? Any long line of people who agree with you?

I don't mean this to be personal, but most of your arguments and hypothesis have been quite lacking and, honestly, remind me of me at a high school age. Before I understood economics or how businesses operate. I don't mean that as a dig at you, but I have to ask for curiosity sake, how old are you?

PointGuru, I just want to say thank you for 3 pages of entertainment.

You're like the Cedar Point nerd's answer to the Onion.

^I was thinking the same thing.......

Mavericklaunch (who likes talking in the third person) thanks TPG for uniting him, and those who often disagree with him, in their opposition to your ideas and beliefs. Just like in a time of war, when political parties unify, I think we all disagree with just about everything you've said recently.

If that was me, I'd be giving that fact some thought.

The PointGuru said:

Being open on a gorgeous spring day in April, that is a great idea that would make money.

I do agree with you on this idea. Cedar Point could take a page out of the Hershey Park handbook and try something like a "Springtime in the Park" sort of promotion. They (HP) open for 3 weekends in mid to late April and have really cashed in on it. No doubt if CP wanted to, I'm sure they could pull it off.

There are a couple of things that I would like to see them do - not so much from an 'extending the season' point of view, but more of a scheduling change:

1) Start Halloweekends the Friday after Labor Day...

This is arguably the best and funnest part of their operating season, and as huge as this event has become, why not take full advantage; there's no need to take a weekend off from it, so to speak.

2) Start ALL of the shows that haven't begun by Memorial Day weekend...

Luminosity is the first one that comes to mind, and there are several others. It seems to me that this is really when the summer kicks off and it would be nice if everything was up and going in full force by the holiday.

Xmas in the park was a lame attempt at nothing, so please don't use this as an example that no one will come. Pointguru has made some valid points about weekends in April and November. And if amusement parks are only about warm summer days then why do they get huge crowds on cold Saturdays in October and early November when Halloween lands on a Friday?

I wish it could work for selfish reasons, I hate the long off season and would welcome even one or two more weekends in April or November.

See ya on the midway... :-)

I did a quick glance over this thread, and I haven't seen much talk about off season maintenance. I think some people are forgetting the massive amount of work that is done in the offseason (that could not be done during an extended season). Buildings are refurbished. Flat rides are dismantled, inspected and rebuilt. Hiring is done for the upcoming season.

The maintenance staff always works their tail off during the offseason, and shortening it in anyway, could vastly effect the quality of the new season each year.

Granted, I'm not a genius or anything. I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong. And I could be wrong on this.

Campfreak, from what I've heard, I think your are spot on with your maintenance observations.

You would handle maintenance issues the same way year round parks handle them. Plus, I mentioned that the additional full time staff the park would hire would help alleviate most of the additional maintenance issues. That is why the union issue came up; but, I that and maintenance are some of the minor issues compared to the staffing.

Smitty Werbenjaegermanjensen said:
Xmas in the park was a lame attempt at nothing, so please don't use this as an example that no one will come.

Cedar Point does not have a metro area to draw from. Their two biggest markets are 90 and 60 minutes away. There isn't enough of an appeal to get normal, non-enthusiast guests to drive that far in the winter. But even if they would be willing to make that trip, there are still the same staffing issues that exist at HalloWeekends (fundraising anyone?) along with maintenance concerns. Many of the buildings and restrooms in the park don't even have heat.

why do they get huge crowds on cold Saturdays in October and early November when Halloween lands on a Friday?

If the weather is bad, they don't. HalloWeekends is highly dependent on weather, more so, in fact, than the regular season. We see it every year. Poor weather = poor crowds.

I thought that the title of this thread implied what I was asking. I don't know where anyone gave the impression the park should be open in the winter. The fact that the park sits between 2 major metropolitan areas (not to mention others like Columbus, Toledo, Akron or Youngstown) within 2 hours of the park is exactly why the idea would have a chance. Halloween and the added attractions the park offers at the end of the year do give an advantage and it was a logical and good business decision to extend the end of the year. It's proven that extending the season will increase revenue, which is what everyone seems more concerned about than customer satisfaction. Opening earlier would have the advantage of attracting customers with spring fever who are eager to get back to the park. Even if the park opened with limited operations it could be promoted as a sneak peak for the summer to come. Limited operations would mean less demand for high staffing levels. The one thing that nearly everyone has agreed with me on is that there would be a good demand for a bonus weekend on nice spring days.

The trick is figuring out staffing and how to accommodate the staffing depending on the unpredictable weather. The truth is that's a lot harder than I want to make it seem and not nearly as hard or as impossible as some would want to make it out to be.

Actually, I believe that CP's surveys show that most people from Dayton & Columbus go to King's Island instead of CP.

And Akron & Youngstown are an even longer drive from CP.

We are not saying it is impossible, we are saying it is NOT PROFITABLE!