How could the park extend its operating season?

Even if extending the season only meant "early bonus weekends" it would raise more money. You don't underestimate the profit margins already built into the over priced food items. It really would not be any different than the current Hallowweekends. You could have the added bonus of having a weather policy that allowed the park to close due to bad weather and not have any operating cost on those days.

There are plenty of times in Ohio that the weather is nice enough for a trip to Cedar Point during spring break for the schools. To me those nice weather years are huge opportunities wasted.

Dutchman said:
What world are you living in? You've just made my point that you have never dealt with a union shop.

In the world where union contracts are negotiated all the time. Have you ever dealt with a union shop? I have, and if the union gets something in return it is usually quite painless. More work and increased revenue is something even unions like.

STAFFING.

You have no idea how much Cedar Point struggles with staffing during halloweekends. Those same issues would be compounded if they tried opening early in the spring

They fill so many positions with ride prides from frats/sororities during halloweekends, those aren't an option during early spring because the school year is ending and they aren't trying to raise funds. Trying to fully staff the park in March or April would be a logistical nightmare.

Unless they offered decent wages (I couldn't type that with a straight face) they will NEVER be able to staff the entire park that early.

I've worked in union shops, in the amusement business, probably long before you wore born. You don't have a clue. That's it.

But, again, the calendar works against you. In the fall, people plan to go to CP this weekend b/c they know that the weather will get worse and they need to go while they can. In March, people know the weather will get better, so why plan to take the family this weekend when the weather will (probably) be nicer 4 weeks from now?

I agree there are "times in Ohio that the weather is nice enough for a trip to Cedar Point during spring break." But you can't turn the park on and off at will. Getting the park cleaned up for a warm sunny day that may not happen during Spring Break costs $$$. Workers driving up from OSU or wherever means they have to be paid even if they don't work or they won't be standing by waiting for your call. Hiring fulltimers increases your overhead. Marketing costs money, even if you are marketing that you will only be open if the weather is good.

The theory makes sense--take advantage of those statistically abnormal days in March and April. In practice, the costs of having the park ready to open are NOT zero or anywhere close to it. Even if you get a 70 degree day in March, can you get enough paying customers, on short notice, to cover your prep and operating expenses? Remember, CP needs enough employees to staff 70 rides for say, 10 hours. Even if everyone on Point Buzz showed up, we couldn't cover their costs.

Captain Hawkeye said:
Even if you closed the park "on bad weather days" how do you think a family that drove out from Cleveland or down from Detroit would react to arriving and finding the park closed?

The moose out front will tell guests the park is closed. Worked well at Walley World, why not Cedar Point.

And having a mechanical moose saves money by not having to pay someone to handle guest complaints as well.

liebevision said:

... Unless they offered decent wages (I couldn't type that with a straight face) they will NEVER be able to staff the entire park that early.

No, I agree staffing would be the biggest problem. Even the idea of hiring full time staff to not work during the coldest months (or just do menial jobs around the park) and bad weather days when the park would close is a pretty far out there idea and would probably cause upper management to have a heart attack. That is also why I think for it to park work operations would have to be considerably downsized. It may not be easy but it could work. It would pay off nicely on the really nice weather days.

Dutchman, I'm not as young as you think I am. Contract terms are negotiated all the time, I'm guessing you had nothing to do with negotiating the contracts and because of attitudes like that is why unions have a bad name. That's it.

Captain Hawkeye said:
Even if you closed the park "on bad weather days" how do you think a family that drove out from Cleveland or down from Detroit would react to arriving and finding the park closed?

Better than paying full price only to find out all of their favorite rides are closed and they can't even get a refund or rain check (like Sunday). That's why I suggested changing the weather policy to allow for rain checks on bad weather days. The park could also post on their website if the park is open or not so people could check before they leave. The park could give status updates based on weather forecast chances the park will be open or not.

If you think the maintenance union isn't crazy, change a lightbulb at a ride as a ride op. Watch the chaos insure, over a lightbulb.

Oh, I know about the light bulb or other menial task. That's because it is in their contract. Take it out of their contract and give them other / more work to do to replace the light bulb work and they are happy. It's when you try to eliminate jobs or lower pay by taking away their responsibilities, then unions go crazy.

Union or non-union, extending the season is impossible.

From a park point of view, it makes absolutely no sense -- they will make no money and they have no employees. For the record, the reason they close half of the flat rides and the train on Fridays is because they DONT have enough employees. It would be like that during any extended season.

Second -- from a visitor point of view -- People just WILL NOT COME. A few die-hard coaster riders might go, but if the rest of the infrastructure is closed, its worthless. Have you ever gone on a Friday during September? There are rarely more than a few hundred customers once school is back in session and high school and college football games take precedence. It picks up a bit during Halloweekends.

Infrastructure wise, what will you do without food stand employees or souvenir stand employees? Those folks are hard to find to begin with, let alone during the school year when they can (usually) make more money working at a job locally, at their school, or in their hometown than driving out to the point.

And have you ever taken a drive out to CP in March? Its miserable. The water is very choppy and murky/dirty/smelly. It splashes up across the causeway at times. It looks terrible. The park itself, without leaves on trees looks pretty barren and terrible. Everything is sandy and muddy without daily maintenance (which there wouldn't be -- see "No Employees" above....

As usual Ron is right on target except for the whole impossible and people not coming thing. People are getting hung up on the park as we see it now. I'm envisioning Friday nights during Halloweekends; but with full time staff. Now imagine a Friday night set up but 75 degrees on a Saturday afternoon or during a spring break. You can't tell me the park wouldn't be packed with people with spring fever after a long winter. The parks customer service would improve with full time workers and they would have to hire less seasonal workers during peak times.

It basically would be no different than a factory adding another shift. It would increase operating cost but also increase revenue.

Captain Hawkeye said:
So the people issuing the rain checks are working for free?

They would be part of the new full time staff that gets paid to work while the park is closed during bad weather days.

Everyone knows a lot of parks operate year round in warm climates. Another way of looking at extending the number of days the park operates would be to basically partially close the park during the winter months and bad weather days. You would still hire full time employees, they would just be paid an "on-call" rate at a much lower wage when they are not working. Or, they could hire full time employees and "lay them off" during off months and allow them to collect unemployment. That is what is commonly done by many construction companies during the winter months.

I say it could be done and be very profitable. It just would take a little imagination.

I wonder if this same possible/impossible argument took place prior to Halloweekends? I think it is as possible as having the park open beyond Labor Day was.

Once again, we learn that "What's good for the park" does not always equal "What I want."

Hey, you know what? I love to ski, and I'm frustrated that the ski season is short. How about I buy a pass that allows me to ski in out-of-season snowfalls, and also ensure refunds to me if it doesn't snow? Why wouldn't a ski resort fully staff itself in return for a couple hundred bucks from me that I can get reimbursed at my option? So what if a bartender doesn't know how to run a ski lift? He can learn! It's just a menial task!

Doesn't it just make so damn much sense?

The PointGuru said:
You can't tell me the park wouldn't be packed with people with spring fever after a long winter. The parks customer service would improve with full time workers and they would have to hire less seasonal workers during peak times.

1. Spring break means going where its warm (Florida, South Carolina, etc.) not a cold peninsula. Yes, sometimes it gets up to 80 during March, but we had frost yesterday in southern Ohio...in mid May.

2. Why would you even attempt to start issuing rain checks? I would go to Cedar Point on a very windy day, maybe getting a few rides in, and then I would go to the front gate, and rant and rave that I didn't have a good day and I need a full refund. No one wants to deal with that.

3. This I America. No (and by that, I mean absolutely NO) union is easy to deal with.

Cedar Point: "We need you to change your duties?"

Union: "We want more money!"

4. Why do you think Cedar Point has a strict weather policy? Oh ya...because bad weather and roller coasters don't mix. We saw that this weekend with three valleyed coasters. Not to mention, the Magnum incident four years ago. The WET, because of RAIN, brakes caused a slow moving train to go through the final brakes into a still train in the station. The weather policy is there for a reason, and you can't just change it out of nowhere.

Last, you seem to think that all corporations are out there to destroy America with the money grubbing hands with no regards to the consumers, don't you think if they had an opportunity to make more money , they would take up something like your program?

I can remember back far enough when the park closed on Labor Day and they had weekends after Labor Day; they were just called bonus weekends before they started Halloweekends. Bonus weekends always had very light crowds unless the weather was tremendous. I heard talk of the park doing away with them because of all the reasons everyone is saying why they wouldn't work now. The park decided to give Halloweekends a try. I don't think they are going away anytime soon.

If the park hyped the earlier openings and gave special discounts or incentives, early bonus openings wouldn't be much different attendance wise as Halloweekends are now.

CDF said:

2. Why would you even attempt to start issuing rain checks? I would go to Cedar Point on a very windy day, maybe getting a few rides in, and then I would go to the front gate, and rant and rave that I didn't have a good day and I need a full refund.

What is the difference between that and what a platinum pass holder does? If you freely give the rain check there is no ranting and raving. Maybe the happy customer buys a funnel cake or some taffy for the way home and they come back another day to use the rain check. What's the big deal?

3. This I America. No (and by that, I mean absolutely NO) union is easy to deal with.

Cedar Point: "We need you to change your duties?"

Union: "We want more money!"

The park makes more money, the union gets paid more money. That's the American way, everyone is happy. What's wrong with that?

4. Why do you think Cedar Point has a strict weather policy? Oh ya...because bad weather and roller coasters don't mix. We saw that this weekend with three valleyed coasters. Not to mention, the Magnum incident four years ago.

How many times do I have to say close the park and issue rain checks because the new weather policy allows for them?

... don't you think if they had an opportunity to make more money , they would take up something like your program?

I don't think the park was under very good management for a long time. Hopefully it is better now. ... And they did and they are called Halloweekends. Kind of a good idea.

It'd be nice if they could open just a bit earlier. End of April or the beginning of May would be great. The weather is usually good enough by then.