Heartline roll removed entirely?

Jump - Are you suggesting a possible solution would be to make the roll more rigid so it doesn't flex as much? If the only reason for the change is the stress on the trains, I could see this being an option. But, if there really was an issue with excessive force or pain on riders, I don't think that would do it. I really don't want to see the roll removed, but as the discussion goes on, it looks like that's the way it's heading. I highly doubt they're modifying that whole section after the tunnel, so they only have 120' to work with.

Jump, if you are right about making the track more rigid maybe the easiest solution would be to replace the track with 4-rail box track instead of the 3-rail. I doubt it's that simple of a fix but who knows.

If the radius needs to be changed, how could they effectively do that with only three pieces of track? Looking at this pic of the first two sections of track going into the roll, the only thing I can think of would be to start the roll a little earlier in the first piece and stretch it out that way.

http://www.pointbuzz.com/Gallery.aspx?i=6361

If they started the roll sooner that would make the roll in this second piece less drastic.

http://www.pointbuzz.com/gallery.aspx?i=6360

I can't tell for sure where the third piece ends but it looks like there is another junction after the third support in the picture. It seems like that would be a pretty long piece of track so I don't know for sure if that is the end of the third piece the forth in that section.

Edit; just realized I was looking at the pics backwards and the train would be coming out of the roll towards the camera in these pics. I still think they may be able to change the third piece of track in the picture (the one closest to the camera).
*** Edited 5/11/2007 1:33:57 PM UTC by zac skoczen***

If Intamin is currently designing and "working" on the new track- then it is pretty much confirmed whether or not the heartline is staying or leaving.
*** Edited 5/11/2007 2:24:44 PM UTC by Tilt-a-Whirl***

Really? That's odd because I thought it was possible to design and "work" on a new heartline profile or some other element. I didn't realize just because they were making new pieces it guaranteed the roll was gone. Oh, that's right, it doesn't. :)

^^ - every time I see your screen name I'm reminded of Tilt-a-whirlgirl. I keep thinking she's come back.

And nothing has been confirmed yet except that they are reworking a section of track. Whether that means they'll remove the element or redesign it in some way, we dont' know yet. For all we know they'll throw a vertical loop in its place.

I was very curious.If they were replacing track sections, than why were they running the ride yesterday on a constant basis. I was there to get my hotel room and I stood there for about 30 minutes and they had 3 trains running. There was no crane in sight to take away any track. Does anyone else seem to understand this?

The best guess is that they are training employees (everything else about the ride will function regardless of what kind of element is in that section) and getting the trains qualified.

Since they are probably still working on the design (or may have only recently finished it) there is no need to tear out that section just yet. I would imagine that if the redesign requires new footers to be poured, we will see the track removed sooner rather than later. But if the redesign uses the same footers and supports, the track could stay in place right up until the new track arrives.

Why not just put in a vertical loop in it's place like JuggaLotus said? Or trick-track...or a small bunny hop, that would be Maverick-ish.

As a disclaimer, I'm NOT saying the park is conspiring against us here!! :) But, I'm wondering why it's ok to keep testing trains if the forces put "undue stress" on them. I would think eliminating the stress from the trains (which will remain on the ride) would be a good idea - by not running them. The only thing I can think of is the stress really isn't all that bad in small doses, but over the life of the ride, it would lead to unnecessary maintenance costs. But, if that were true, why not have the media day, open the ride, and then close it for a week to replace the track? So many "what ifs". grrrrrrr - it makes my head hurt more than trying to figure out Lost. LOL!!

I think Rider Comfort is more an issue than train stress...

Otherwise they would stop running the ride... At least in my opinion.

Jump to Conclusions, I see what you're saying. I was looking at it basically from the point of view that the inversion was too tight (ie, train going through inversion to fast for the inversion's size), and thus creating high G-forces.

What you're saying does make sense though. I can understand how the lack of a support will create a less rigid track, and thus have a more difficult time changing the direction of the train. Would you not have a peak in forces too when you hit that "snap" that would not only affect the trains, but also the riders? I would think that the forces felt by the rider would be the bigger concern.

*** Edited 5/11/2007 7:36:41 PM UTC by DBCP***

Josh M. said:
I think Rider Comfort is more an issue than train stress...

Otherwise they would stop running the ride... At least in my opinion.

That's what I thought too. But, in all the recent interviews, Bryan Edwards from the park keeps saying it is stress on the trains. That's why I'm all confused. Then again, I guess you could somehow twist "stress on the trains" around a lot to really mean stress on the occupants of the trains. Theoretically, undue stress on the trains also puts undue stress on the riders. So, maybe they were just indirectly saying the roll was wicked rough on the passengers but didn't want to actually say that and scare people off. :)

I'll tell you, when I watched all of the animation for Maverick I was a little concerned. First, because this was supposedly a "family" ride...but that element didn't look too family friendly to me. Second, because I was worried about it making me feel nauseous.

If they replace it with straigh-a-way I won't be disappointed. But then again, I'm getting to be an old guy. Maybe you younger folks would have like it.

I don't think that there would have to be a straight section. If you look at the banking, it's a hard right, then a hard left. Either way you twist it, it's going to be a continuous motion. Of course the roll has more degrees to rotate in the given space and will be the more aggressive element.

I'd have to take a closer look, but I think a relatively small carousel could fit on location without too much more work. Personally I would like that element more than I like the roll they have now. It would cost more than a simple bank transition but they are already overdone on the ride though.

Maybe they haven't made up there mind yet on what to do

^^(to the reply up a few) Well when I went to CP with my whole family. I wasn't 52". So maybe that's a sign that they have ditched the family ride idea...and are going to keep the heartline roll- just space it out more. *** Edited 5/12/2007 1:43:31 AM UTC by DrunkinMonkey***

halltd said:
But, I'm wondering why it's ok to keep testing trains if the forces put "undue stress" on them. I would think eliminating the stress from the trains (which will remain on the ride) would be a good idea - by not running them.

Or it could be that running with the water dummies pushed it over what they set as their limit. Maybe running without them, like they are now, is less stressful enough that they can still continue with other testing.

*** Edited 5/12/2007 2:34:43 AM UTC by Headrush69***

I agree with headrush. I don't really know how much a train weighs, but over 2 tons of people sitting there will affect a lot. 2 tons---28*(average weight 160)=4480 which equals 2.24 tons. And that is for "average" people, you could have upwards of 2.75 easily. That is equal to one large car, so yea I could see why maybe without people train is fine, but with a full maximum load it could be too much.
*** Edited 5/12/2007 3:57:26 AM UTC by CoasterNut06***

The issue is fatigue wear. How many times can the trains go through the course before they start to crack? I wouldn't doubt that at least one of the trains already has cracked. A talented welder can make the train both stronger and tougher than it originally was without adding much weight if any.

They want the ride open ASAP. The ride has to run to find bugs. Running the trains will cause more cracking than they would like, but good inspections will find the cracks fast. Stick welding costs around $25-$30/lb of deposited metal. Since they will be found quickly, they can be ground out when small. Then use dye penetrant to make sure the crack is gone. Say $50 per crack to repair. This is trivial compared to even more downtime later. Even with the new element, the parts of the train that crack probably would have down the road anyways. Cracks can strike any ride at any time. Quality inspections will find them before they become a problem. Catastrophic failures don't just happen with ductile materials such as structural steel. They give plenty of warning and it takes a lot of negligence to fail to see it like certain Japanese roller coasters.

^^ I think you only mean 1 ton, because only 12 people fit on one train. 12*160=1920 which is slightly less than 1 ton.

Also, I think the problem isn't the "stress" on the trains, but rather the high lateral forces on the rider. If the stress was that high on the trains, they wouldn't keep running them over and over just to cause them to eventually fail (break) to fatigue.