Gas at $3.25,will affect attendance

Loopy. Bite the bullet and take a car payment.

http://www.gmc.com/yukonhybrid/index.jsp

Chevy has one as well and for you bling types there will be an Escalade.

But it's a choice I make and I like it.

If you ask a scientist, he will tell you your choice is perfectly safe.

If you ask a politician, he'll tell you you're contributing to the apocolypse.

It's also your choice in America to choose who you listen to.

That said, I do belive hybrids are wonderful in that it's a step towards getting away from an old technology that can only take us so far, as well as reducing our dependence on importing oil from other countries.
*** Edited 5/24/2007 2:16:46 PM UTC by Kevinj***

bholcomb said:
To think Hybrids are the end all solution to our problem or even a viable solution is very short sighted.

I don't think any rational person suggests that hybrids are an "end all" solution, but that doesn't give us a free pass to not take advantage of interim steps and do something either.

Kevinj said:
Global Warming is a myth, by the way.

Only to morons.

The simple fact of the matter is that if people don't think that there is an environmental problem, and they don't think that we use entirely too much gas, then people are unwilling to do anything about it. The sad thing about it is that they'll also complain about gas prices, and blame the oil companies, the government, the Saudis, or whatever.

No one wants a landfill in their background, but people don't want to recycle. They want to lose weight, but eat at McDonald's. They don't like the trade deficit, but shop at Wal-Mart. We've created a culture void of responsibility all in the name of freedom and the "American way," which apparently means if you don't like our lifestyle and our actions, you can kiss our collective ass. It really makes me sad.

Positive change starts with individuals, and it takes into consideration the fact that we all have to share the world we live in. If you prefer to spend your time making excuses, then you're part of the problem, and nothing will change.

Kevinj said:
If you ask a scientist, he will tell you your choice is perfectly safe.

Thanks for the input, Limbaugh.

Only to morons.

That's just simply not true. That said, I work in academia, so I am consistently talking with eating lunch with and interacting with researchers and scientists. The debate is real.

No one wants a landfill in their background, but people don't want to recycle. They want to lose weight, but eat at McDonald's. They don't like the trade deficit, but shop at Wal-Mart. We've created a culture void of responsibility all in the name of freedom and the "American way," which apparently means if you don't like our lifestyle and our actions, you can kiss our collective ass. It really makes me sad.

You'll be happy to know that despite my current perception on "global warming", I do not fit into this category.

Thanks for the input, Limbaugh.

And while republicans and democrats have certainly chosen their "side" on the issue, this has no bearing on what I said. Although, I see where you're coming from, so I understand why it would seem easy to throw me in that box. Im not even a fan of Limbaugh.
*** Edited 5/24/2007 2:28:02 PM UTC by Kevinj***

First of all, for all your involvement in academia, it says a lot that you don't know the difference between global warming, and human-influenced global warming. Global warming is not a myth, and there is no debate in the scientific community (aside from the inevitable crackpot). There is, however, debate as to whether or not, or to what extent, humans are contributing to that trend.

Secondly, I wasn't politicizing the issue with the Limbaugh statement. I was merely comparing your idiotic assertion that global warming doesn't exist with his general idiocy, which includes the assertion that humans have no impact on the warming trend. He'd still be an idiot if he were a Democrat.

I've only read bits and pieces of this thread. But, has anyone else said that if the gas prices keep going up, people might actually CHOOSE to get a more efficient car? If they can't afford to put the gas in their massive SUV, they'll have to get something more efficient.

I honestly think this is the only way to get the majority of Americans to make a change. Like Jeff said, people aren't going to just choose to be green for the hell of it. Unless there is a financial incentive for them to do so, they won't do it.

In Loopy's case, he needs to save the money on the car so he can tow his trailer. I'm assuming he can't afford the brand new Yukon hybrid - or at least chooses not to afford it. But, if gas prices were high enough to make the hybrid a better economic decision for him, he'd buy it. I don't really blame him for not wanting to buy a brand new car, especially a hybrid - since they cost more than regular cars because supply is limited and demand is up.

I think if the government really wanted to make a change for the environment, they should offer more incentives for hybrids and other green technologies. Give incentives to car companies so hybrids cost the consumer LESS than the basic combustion engine. Give people more tax breaks for buying green cars.

I'm not saying it's right we have to "force" people into green technologies. But, if they aren't going to make the switch on their own, you have to do something.

The government can't afford incentives right now, silly. We have to spend all our money on defense, else the terrorists will win, gas prices will rise even further and American Idol will be canceled.

EDITED for spelling.
*** Edited 5/24/2007 2:40:43 PM UTC by djDaemon***

First of all, for all your involvement in academia, it says a lot that you don't know the difference between global warming, and human-influenced global warming.

I do, but most people don't, so I didn't refer to it, and yes, I am aware that the debate centers around the human contribution. I didnt say I study it, I just have access to many boring lectures and seminars on the topic. The assertion that it's only the inevitable crackpot scientist or conservative extremists is just not true. I dont know how else to say it.

But, yours and Jeff's reaction is another part of the problem at these "debates"; it leads to a lot of emotional reactivity and just hardens people's eyes and ears to even hearing an opposing statement.

My own current "truth" is that while Gore's inconvenient truth was very compelling, I've seen it torn apart by scientists who actually conduct studies in Antartica (sp). And are liberals.

Interesting take, HallTD. It's absolutely sickening to think of the profits the big oil companies are bringing in.
*** Edited 5/24/2007 2:51:58 PM UTC by Kevinj***

Let me be the first to say that Loopy's trailer is far from what you think it is. It's a space-efficient pop-up trailer that does not have a million amenities. No A/C, a small TV, and a small sink. It still has screen windows, and canvas to keep the rain out.

In my mind, it's the perfect way to travel. It's perfectly efficient, and self-contained. It feels like camping, but not so much to make you miserable.

And it weighs 8,000lbs? If that's the case, Loopy, you may want to try removing the 4,000lbs of concrete, or whatever you have in there before your next trip.

Kevinj said:
But, yours and Jeff's reaction is another part of the problem at these "debates"; it leads to a lot of emotional reactivity and just hardens people's eyes and ears to even hearing an opposing statement.

Emotional reactivity? I have heard that claim made by many supporters of the theory that we're not contributing to the problem, and that simply isn't valid. It's called common-sensical reactivity.
*** Edited 5/24/2007 3:09:33 PM UTC by djDaemon***

It's not that the current TT weighs 8,000 lbs., that was a blanket statement for the future. Actually the one we're looking at weighs about 5,500 lbs dry. OK, next time you go to a hotel make sure you find one with a community bathroom and no TV or fridge in the room.

I'm getting a larger vehicle in order to update the camper in the future. I'm sorry that I'm not in the position that some of you are to be able to go out and buy everything brand new. You have to take some time and update things as you can. This is the most efficient and practical means we have at hand.

We've weighed the cost of driving our 2004 TOYOTA COROLLA on vacation and staying in a crappy hotel versus driving a PAID FOR VEHICLE that gets less gas mileage and taking our PAID FOR camper.

If you choose to have a car payment, Coastern3rd, that's fine, it's your choice. Don't try and tell me what I need to do.

*** Edited 5/24/2007 3:40:06 PM UTC by Loopy***

But, why would you need to tow 4 tons in the future? Are you entering a tractor pull or something?

Even the most generously appointed pop-ups weigh in at around 4,000lbs GVWR.

I think the bottom line is, regardless of your reasoning, you are making a choice to be environmentally irresponsible. You can avoid a car payment and an SUV while still being able to tow a trailer.

*** Edited 5/24/2007 3:43:17 PM UTC by djDaemon***

Yep, I'm completely irresponsible.

And I'm OK with it. :)

Global warming is bad, says Al Gore as he steps out of his private jet.

Sometimes I wonder how "good" for the environment roller coasters are, yet we still use them. I mean, how many trees were cut down to make Mean Streak or Son of Beast?

Jeff is right. People will point out everyone else's flaws if it benefits them, but will not change themselves unless they see an immediate benefit for themselves.

I know I am like that, anyway.

That's great, but what about your kids? Or their kids? Not only are you not showing concern for their future, but you're teaching them to be irresponsible as well.

That's exactly the mentality that makes this country so hated throughout the World.

No, I'm pretty sure that's because we stick our noses in where they don't belong.

That's a whole entire other debate though.

Take a trip to Europe.

Or why don't you quit prancing yourself around like your someones mom?

You have made your opinion clear, we heard like, twenty times. So move on dj, we don't need to hear it anymore. If thats what he chooses to do, then let him do it for gods sakes.

If you want to preach, go work at a church.

Just so you guys know, since I drive an Ultra Low Emission Vehicle, I am way more socially and morally responsible that you.