FLP up again to $249 on Saturdays

At these prices a Gold VIP tour seems like a reasonable alternative.

As crowded as they get on Saturdays it's definitely appropriate. If anything it's still too cheap but definitely a step in the right direction.

Will be very interesting to see how they price the All Season FLP products for next season.

This is long overdue, as a All Season All Park FL+ holder. The FL+ lines have been getting long b/c of so many having them. The higher prices will deter some people. The $159 for weekdays should help those days too.

Cedar Point can make equivalent revenue by selling less at a higher price point & people that do buy will feel like they are getting better value. Hopefully this will lessen the occurrence of having 45 min to 1hr FL+ lanes for Steel Vengeance & Maverick.

The price increase also may help Platinum pass sales, as the FL+ for FL price for a Saturday is $80 & $50 on weekdays. If you're buying multiple FL+ for a family, the savings on FL+ pays for possible getting 1 Platinum pass or upgrading a day ticket or Gold Pass to a Platinum.

Cedar Point is probably going to have higher than normal increases in all products for 2022 season. CP usually does about 2% increases annually, would expect 5% or more depending on the product. Expecting Gold Passes to see big increases....guessing $135

I just cannot imagine paying $250 a head to then wait in the FLP lines we observed during our trip two weeks ago. We are fortunate to have all season FLP, but it was 45 minutes or more all 4 days of our trip for SV, Maverick and Valravn. TTD fluctuated around 30-45. These represented about 35-50% of the wait of the standby lines for each coaster, sometimes more than 50% of the wait for Valravn, which had, by far, the slowest moving FLP line. On VERY busy days at Kings Island earlier this summer, we never waited more than 20 minutes for any attraction, and most were 5-10, especially Orion and Mystic. Similar experiences at Dorney, KD and Carowinds.

They may reduce demand with the higher price, but the prepaid season users could greatly surprise the people shelling out for the daily if they have long waits. I bought one for Busch Tampa last weekend at $100, and I was pretty dissatisfied with some long waits (if you think any ops at CP are bad, you should see how slow they are in Tampa).

I think the demand for premium access for entertainment is already pretty high, but not every industry has fully embraced the price hikes they could reach. People are paying out the nose for concert VIP packages, and I think amusement parks are at least worth that.

There's been a lot of talk about how the sale of season long FastLane really makes it hard to manage the situation and that very well could be true. As far as I know, those people get their FastLane access even if it's sold out for the day. They might also be heavily concentrated on weekends when the park is already struggling to deliver a good experience to people who have paid top dollar for hotel rooms and maybe higher FastLane prices too. Hopefully they're collecting data to make adjustments in pricing or in the offering itself. I have no idea how many of those all season ones were sold. I also have no idea how many sales it takes to "sell out" Fast Lane at CP, but I do know the Fastlane lines have been pretty lengthy this year, commonly reaching 45 minutes to an hour at Steel Vengeance and Maverick, and that's despite having 50% of the ride's capacity dedicated to FastLane customers. Both that ratio and the wait time seem pretty high to me. The people in standby are pissed because the line moves at 50% what it should and the people who paid a premium aren't happy either because they think they should wait 15 minutes tops or whatever. It seemed to me they were pretty stubborn in keeping the prices low for most of the season.

I'm not really sure they NEED to offer a season long FastLane product anyway. Who exactly is buying them? The well-off couple trip per season visitors would just buy the daily ones each time they go anyway or maybe even go for the VIP tour. My gut says they sell a lot of them to people within an hour drive who in all honesty probably shouldn't be buying them, but they do anyway and they go to the park 5x a week or something. I'm thinking like teens still living with their parents and getting a lot of their bills paid for them or just enthusiasts who like to spend on parks, but then can't pay their car/phone/etc. Maybe I'm wrong and judgmental to say that I don't know, but it's kind of a gut feeling. It really seems CP has offered it as something for enthusiasts to take advantage of without considering how it affects their more bread and butter customers. The same could probably be said for the cheap gold passes too. The place has been packed this year. I'd love to know the Cedar Point specific per capita spending numbers though because the average admission per capita is probably like under 10 bucks a day at this point. It will also be interesting to see how this season affects them going forward.

McClure brought up the term "predictability of experience" at Coastermania as something that they're trying to start taking seriously, but having hundreds of thousands of cheap passes in circulation and selling all season FastLane seem to sort of fly in the face of that. To me, that sounds like reservations, dated tickets, maybe limited capacity, virtual queuing, etc. But the only thing that has been predictable about the experience this season is that it will be packed and not really as good as it has been in the past. That's not to say everything is bad. They've done a nice job with the 150th stuff including the parade and show, the merch looks great, the park is fairly clean, etc. But as far as getting on lots of rides, it really isn't happening this year.

All-season fast lane probably isn't contributing much to the FLP lines; they had short waits last year when only all-season holders could access them.

If everyone used dining plans like many enthusiasts do, the park would be losing money hand over fist on them. Given the seasonal limits and high prices on season FLP, I doubt a significant number of enthusiasts are marathoning rides with it on a given Saturday afternoon.

My wife and I made the jump to all season at 2019 renewal. With our work schedules and limited crossover vacation time, it allowed us to confidently plan trips with less concern about it being a weekend or spending fewer days in the park. Our home park is Wonderland, so a day trip there with FLP is much less stressful (only one use so far, August 2019) but it vastly improved our 2 days at KI last year, the 3 we had this year, 4 days at CP last year and also this year, and 1 day at Dorney, (2 each at KD and Carowinds coming up). Unless travel restrictions return, we'll also be using them next April at Knott's when we go back for the (likely very busy) Boysenberry festival for the first time in a few years. I also plan a weekend trip next year to the Bay Area for CA GA and Discovery Kingdom, where we hope the FLP will help us get everything in one day, which will likely have to be a Saturday.

Yes, ASFLP(all season FL+) get their band even if FL is listed as sold out. Most ASFLP people I know avoid Saturdays. I have it & have only gone on a weekend day once, a Sunday in June & managed only 9 rides all day.

Cedar Fair has an extensive CRM system & they know what people are buying, where they are from via credit card info & whom is coming what days, etc... They can essentially get a general idea of income, demographics, etc,,,from your zipcode. They know what % of FL day buys are passes, day visitors, hotel/resort guests, etc... Going cashless helps them even better track things for in park spend if you use a debit card or credit card for food, merchandise, etc....that people normally would buy with cash.

FL backing up on Steel Vengeance is partially due to pretty poor ops on the ride all season. They are not dispatching the next train till the other one is already back or almost back like 75% of the time. They should dispatch once they hit the mid course. The times they do release correctly, usually if they want to do a power hour or the last 30 mins when they want to go home, the line flies for standby & FL.

Yes, they need & it's smart business to offer ASFLP, they get $875 upfront. It's the same reason why parks started pushing season passes a lot more now than they did 10, 15, 20, 25 years ago. Deferred revenue sitting to be claimed is a great hedge against weird circumstances, like the whether is horrible for July & August & attendance suffers. Since it sold out at several parks(CP & KI) Cedar Fair will surely be raising the prices for 2022.

I have had ASFLP since they started it & knowing people that have it personally & talking to strangers in line, most of the people that have it are people that travel to many Cedar Fair parks in a year. The one park ASFL for a local kind of doesn't make a lot of sense for most people. If you're close to the park you can go & know when the slower days are..ie..iffy weather, morning rain, etc...Before it was offered I would buy FL+ probably 75% of the time & always at Knotts & Wonderland, I'm spending 1/2 of what I spent on FL+ in the past, as somebody that goes to CF parks 20-25 days a year.

Admission per caps at CP are from $10, CP has some of the best per caps in the chain, best in park spend, etc...the only real rival is Knotts b/c they have higher prices in general(it's Cali) & they don't include Knotts Scary Farm for pass holders.

There is no way CP is going to do limited capacity, reservations, etc... that is not imposed on them by the state via health concerns.

2022 I expect price increases larger than normal, Gold Passes like $135, ASLP $950, Dining, etc... CF like all chains are dealing with permanent major labor increases they need to make up for. Also, since people feel they are "flush" with cash from the government payments & wage increases, the park are going to price into strength of demand. They did that in 2021, but still under priced single day FL, which they corrected late, should have done it in June when they saw FL was selling out some days, which is rare for June.

MDOmnis said:

My gut says they sell a lot of them to people within an hour drive who in all honesty probably shouldn't be buying them, but they do anyway and they go to the park 5x a week or something.

If it's within their personal budget and is something that has personal value to them and makes their experience better, why shouldn't they buy them?

I’ve said from the start they need to be able to account for ASFLP. For example if there are 1,000 FLP (just pulling a number out of my arse) available on a given day, when an ASFLP pass is scanned at the gate the number available should decrease accordingly. Sure, if FLP is already sold out the ASFLP should still be able to get a bracelet. But I bet that is the exception way more than the norm.

So here’s a question… Do those with ASFLP get first crack at renewing since it is such a limited item? Or is it 100% first come first serve so don’t hesitate if you want to renew?

I agree (and have said so for months), fully expect to see significant price hikes on passes when they go on sale. I also wouldn’t expect to see the new pass and/or renewal perks from years past. CF isn’t just going to take that wage increase on the chin.

And last but not least, California’s Great America shall forevermore be abbreviate as CAGA.

CED23 said:

Yes, they need & it's smart business to offer ASFLP, they get $875 upfront.

...I'm spending 1/2 of what I spent on FL+ in the past, as somebody that goes to CF parks 20-25 days a year.

This is exactly why I and others said from the beginning that it was priced WAY too low. It should be in the neighborhood of $1,500-$2,000, unless they exclude locals.

Whether they actually reduce the allotment on a day by the number of ASFLP is the "million dollar"question. It would make sense to do so, but for some reason I bet they don't or don't do it 1 for 1 basis.

If you're buying All park ASFLP it doesn't really matter where you buy it from, hence they might not give priority to current holders.

I predict for 2022 they still give the perks, but just raise prices, hopefully a big price increase for Gold. Since this is the 1st renewal season for Gold Passes it could be interesting on any perks. Didn't they get a free ticket & the fall for free in 2019? It will be a holy hell disaster if they give them the free FL+ in the fall like they have done for Platinum renewals.

djDaemon said:

CED23 said:

Yes, they need & it's smart business to offer ASFLP, they get $875 upfront.

...I'm spending 1/2 of what I spent on FL+ in the past, as somebody that goes to CF parks 20-25 days a year.

This is exactly why I and others said from the beginning that it was priced WAY too low. It should be in the neighborhood of $1,500-$2,000, unless they exclude locals.

Starting that high of a price would exclude too many people, other than the cohort like me. Companies usually prefer to build demand & after raise prices, rather than have to lower prices b/c of poor demand. CF has gotten a lot of people hooked potentially & they are selling out all season. Now they can price into that demand.

Also, if they made it $1500 or $2000 they will have to raise day FLP substantially to make ASFLP worth it. Not everybody goes 20+days like me & will see the value at that price point. If you go only 10 days a yr...$150/day at $1500 ASFLP, the day FLP will have to be $150+(including the Platinum discount) to make it a "value". Also, the fact is some days you don't actually need FLP, which everybody that has ASFLP knows. Went to KI, 4 days this year & you only really needed it one of those days, needed it all the days at CP, & it has varied at other CF parks this year too.

CED23 said:

Also, if they made it $1500 or $2000 they will have to raise day FLP substantially to make ASFLP worth it.

Which they should also do, based on the reports of absurdly long FL waits this year.

As an alternative to hiking the all season FL price, perhaps they should have local blackout days stretching basically from mid-July through Labor Day, with the possible exception of Tuesdays or whatever. Because while there may not be many people in your situation - where they're losing roughly $35 in per cap each visit - that any exist at all doesn't seem to be a well thought out strategy.

In my opinion, this really all goes back to giving away the gate with the Gold Pass. They're in a race for the bottom, cramming as many people into the parks - and FL lines - as possible, guest satisfaction be damned.

The fact that they sold out of all season FLP well before the season even started and within a short buying window makes me think it was priced to low to begin with this year.

Shane Denmark said:

>So here's a question; Do those with ASFLP get first crack at renewing since it is such a limited item? Or is it 100% first come first serve so don't hesitate if you want to renew?.

My guess is Accesso probably can't handle that first option. Unless CP does some sort of manual workaround or gets creative with the Accesso, were probably looking at a free for all.

FLP is $159 on weekdays now, it was like $110 & $101 weekdays before.

Blackout dates "solution" would be on the basis that that locals are the buying Cedar Point only ASFLP are the problem. That doesn't appear to be the case & the fact is FL lines were non existent when only all season people & preseason bought voucher people could use FL. The FL back up is one day people buying them in droves, that should in theory be reduced by the higher price.

They aren't giving away the gate. The people attracted in 2019 $99 Gold Pass for the 150th anniversary are not logically driving FL issue. If you're only buying b/c of a reduced price, which many did, you're not likely going to be spending more than your pass for the year for FL+ regularly, Gold pass people don't get a discount like Platinum.

Again, the 2019 Gold pass discounts was an one off for the than 2020(delayed by pandemic) 150th anniversary celebration. Last off season they didn't repeat the pricing, the lowest Gold was $119 & it was $129 at the beginning of November. If they were "in a race to the bottom to cram people in" they would have done the $99 Gold sale last off season.

CED23 said:

...the fact is FL lines were non existent when only all season people & preseason bought voucher people could use FL.

You mean during the height of the pandemic, when there were all sorts of restrictions, reduced hours, and a general reluctance for most people to get out and do stuff? Do you honestly think that's a reasonable point of comparison by which to draw that conclusion?

If they were "in a race to the bottom to cram people in" they would have done the $99 Gold sale last off season.

The fact of the matter is that a very non-zero number of former Platinum Pass customers are now paying roughly $100 less for all season access and free parking. Sure, there are some new Gold Pass customers who weren't going before, and regardless of whether or not they're candidates for FL is beside the point. The park is by all accounts super crowded this year, which means long lines everywhere.

Combine that with vastly underpriced all season FL and marginally underpriced daily FL, and you've got a recipe for a very much NOT "best day experience". Sure, it may not hurt them in the short run, but when you've got a popular product that is in limited supply, it makes little sense to reduce the price.

If you take away day FL+ the lines are non existent, a fact. Very few people relatively have ASFLP as a % on a daily basis from what I witnessed. I have it & talk to people in line, it's overwhelmingly(90%) day FL+ and the all season I talk too are usually out of town people like me, that travel to many parks. ASFLP is not the problem with long lines for FL. Actual issues with FL are poor ops on Steel Vengeance & some other coasters, Gatekeeper being down for a long time, also some other rides that are not working at all such as Max Air, which alters the distribution of people in the park,

If you downgraded to CP Gold from Platinum than the only reason you had Platinum was CP didn't offer anything else but a regular pass, which had no good benefits & you had to pay for parking with it. Hence Platinum made more financial sense. The main reason to have Platinum is to go to other parks & if you don't care about that, there is no reason to have it really , hence you downgrade to Gold.

Where are you getting they "reduced the price"? Gold was offered 1 time at anniversary special price, not repeated in 2020 off season. ASFLP has increased since the initial price & will surely increase this off season. Day FL+ was under priced & that has been corrected for August. They are pricing into demand for FL & other products.

Yes, the park is busy b/c people couldn't do much last year & got extra money from the government in stimulus payments even if they were still working normally. Other factors are the Fall Gold Pass frenzy from 2019, which a bunch of these people will not renew in 2022, The sports complexes are bringing in some extra people too. Many factors involved. It's kind of hilarious the fretting since in 2018 & 2019 people were complaining about CP attendance & anecdotes of many light days, Even some saturdays in July people were talking about Maverick being a virtual walk on the last 2 hours before close.