Fast Lane

144 people x $50/person = $7,200

minus your $800 = $6400 that the park would net just based on your one time in line for TTD.

What does that mean? The park doesn't care and is making lots of money

Sause said:
144 people x $50/person = $7,200

minus your $800 = $6400 that the park would net just based on your one time in line for TTD.

What does that mean? The park doesn't care and is making lots of money

Good point! Though my money alone won't exceed the amount they are earning from FL, how many other passholders and one time regulars with no extra cash will end up doing the same thing, i.e. cutting back on visits or not visiting at all? I know of several families that have not returned to CP in quite a few years because of the long wait times. If this worsens, will more skip CP? Will there be a lot of disgruntled regulars and passholders? I have heard a lot of groaning from others in line while I have been waiting passholders and others. It's more complicated than just simple math, there are definitely a lot of unhappy people out there with respect to how FL has been implemented, at least on the more crowded days.

How are things like at other parks that have FL in terms of longer waits for regulars?

I'm not saying get rid of it, I just think it needs to be limited on at least TTD, MF and Mav IMHO. Hopefully they will adjust things so that the waits aren't as bad as has been reported. We'll see...

Happy riding! :-)

Smitty Werbenjaegermanjensen said:
...how many other passholders and one time regulars with no extra cash will end up doing the same thing, i.e. cutting back on visits or not visiting at all?

Probably not many at all. First of all, not going at all is a knee jerk, sour grapes reaction, as Pete alluded to earlier. It's just not a logical response, especially for those of who claim to spend $XXXX every year. Secondly, many pass holders know the best times to visit in order to lower the risk of encountering huge crowds, so the impact from FL is minimized.

I know of several families that have not returned to CP in quite a few years because of the long wait times.

Well, then it sounds like they'll be happy to hear CP has a system to alleviate their biggest complaint about the park! Not only does this mean increased revenue for the park via general admission tickets, but also increased revenue for the FL passes they'll purchase. :)

Smitty Werbenjaegermanjensen said:
We have platinum passes and go up about 30x per year

You're lucky you can go that often. I can definitely see why the FL would be annoying to someone who goes multiple times a year and does not see the value in the FL. However, there are a lot of people who simply cannot go to the park that many times. I live over 15 hours away, so FL is an amazing solution to our problem...we want to get the most bang for our buck. FL is the best way to ensure that happens. We will come back more often knowing that the FL system is there because we know we can get in a lot more rides by buying it. The out of towners will want to get the FL more than the regulars...and we are the ones that spend the most money

-Katie

Smitty Werbenjaegermanjensen said:
I know of several families that have not returned to CP in quite a few years because of the long wait times.

So, they stopped going because Cedar Point didn't offer a way for them to reduce their wait time?

These are the exact kind of people Cedar Point is targeting with FL.

Sause said:
144 people x $50/person = $7,200

minus your $800 = $6400 that the park would net just based on your one time in line for TTD.

What does that mean? The park doesn't care and is making lots of money

Nice but your logic is flawed, we know of him because he said he won't come back, how many people won't come back but aren't saying it on here or out loud. Short term profit that irritates your guest's leads to long term losses, when they don't come back at all.

I don't think this has been mentioned but Fast Lane has been raised $5.

It was mentioned

djDaemon said:

Smitty Werbenjaegermanjensen said:
...how many other passholders and one time regulars with no extra cash will end up doing the same thing, i.e. cutting back on visits or not visiting at all?

Probably not many at all. First of all, not going at all is a knee jerk, sour grapes reaction, as Pete alluded to earlier. It's just not a logical response, especially for those of who claim to spend $XXXX every year. Secondly, many pass holders know the best times to visit in order to lower the risk of encountering huge crowds, so the impact from FL is minimized.

It's best not to irritate the majority of your guests when the market offers so many choices, entertainment dollars can be spent at any number of venue's, not everyone is a coaster/park enthusiast. The only problem I have with the system is the "unlimited" re-rides, devoting a small portion 20% maybe 30% of the ride's capacity to some virtual queuing system is convenient and nice (ala Disney's Fast Pass, also complimentary) when it reaches 40% to 50% there is a demonstrable effect on the stand-by queue thus irritating your guests.

JW Addington said:
"We believe in first-come, first-served," said Innes. "And these people were moving in front of other people in line."

If it makes any difference, the dude who said that no longer works there.

There are two annoying aspects to this discussion. The first is that the biggest whines come from people who aren't even visiting the park on a regular basis, and are driven entirely by the idea that they're not part of the crowd who can afford Fast Lane.

The second is this silly entitlement nonsense. People with more money can afford to do more fun things. It has always been that way. Cedar Point has always been, and continues to be, priced right about the point where families of average means can afford it. I doubt that will change much. So a few people can ride more because they have money. Get over it or save your pennies. I don't get court-side seats at NBA games either.

The way I look at it, if the lines are longer to the point I have to ride a little less per visit, I'll just come again, that's why I bought the pass.

However, if I'm from out of state where it's a one time thing to come to the park then I'm buying Fast Lane so I can ride everything.

Seems simple to me

Jeff said:

The second is this silly entitlement nonsense. People with more money can afford to do more fun things. It has always been that way. Cedar Point has always been, and continues to be, priced right about the point where families of average means can afford it. I doubt that will change much. So a few people can ride more because they have money. Get over it or save your pennies. I don't get court-side seats at NBA games either.

I agree. But there is a key difference here with your NBA analogy. You never could get those seats so nothing has changed. Before Fast Lane everyone was equal, well except for the few VIPs. Now the rules have changed and what was equal is no longer. I think that is what has gotten people upset.

Shades said:
Before Fast Lane everyone was equal, well except for the few VIPs.

And Platinum Pass Holders. Because unless you soent more money, you had no chance of getting first train of the day on Dragster or getting to Maverick first before there was a wait.

NBA floor seats were not always ridiculously expensive (at least not in Cleveland). They were more expensive than non-floor seats but nothing like they are now (or at least have been recently).

The problem here is that you don't know whether or not, or to what extent, FL is responsible for the wait you're experiencing. Without attendance and other data, you're conjecturing. Maybe the longer waits are due to attendance? Or staff? Or perhaps you're a victim of confirmation bias?

How is it conjecture when I can't solely demonstrate to you in an online forum? Whether one comes through with factual data or not, me and the other 50%+ Pointbuzzers are not the only ones who notice a drastic change in wait time this year because of the system. What would be another explanation as to why wait times have become as long as they are this season?

Again, you're conjecturing. The system is new, and the park has already demonstrated that they're monitoring the system closely, and in fact adjustments have already been made. For all we know, the best may be yet to come.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only adjustments I've seen made are the increase in price for FL. If people still want to get to the front of the line, they will pay that amount no matter what, which will result in the same thing we've seen demonstrated so far as the season progresses with larger crowds in the busier months. If this system was first tried out over at KI for the entire last season, shouldn't the kinks be somewhat worked out by now?

Your assumptions would only be correct if they sold nearly half as many FL passes as they do general admission tickets. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the park indicate the mix will be somewhere around 10-20%? At that mix rate, waits won't be doubled for every FL ride.

A 10-20% mix rate based on that day's number of ticket sales? If so, what percentage of guests do you think pay the admission price but do not ride? If I remember correctly from working at CP, the number was estimated at around either 30% or 40% of guests do not ride rides

And you've hit it. You're basing your assumptions on only what you see, rather than actual data. Confirmation bias, etc..

What data records do I need (other than a stopwatch) in order to show whether I've waited 30 minutes for a ride, or 3 hours? You really shouldn't rely too much on data. If that were the case, Ouimet would be sitting in his office, on his computer all day waiting for the daily reports to come through, rather than walking throughout the park to interact with guests and catch their opinions. These would ALL only be assumptions if I haven't been to the park yet to experience it myself, and that's what I'm trying to get at. You don't need data to remind yourself that the wait time has increased.

I encourage everyone complaining about the price of fast lane and it being for the rich to think about what you spend your money on. I was at the park recently and used fast lane. I noticed people at the concession stands without fast lane buying the overpriced food and drinks. For example, I was behind one individual who ordered a soda drink and cheese nachos. His bill was over $10. I then ordered my free ice water and went on my way skipping the lines with my fast lane pass.

You have to prioritize your spending.

Personally, it's not worth going on busy days without fast lane. It's not even worth arguing, it's basic math, at a 50/50 load rate the waits are twice as long. Yes, if you luck out and the fast lane queue empties on Bluestreak then it's not, but on the big three I've yet to see it empty.

I'll buy it on my visits, more so because I have to than can afford to. It sucks without it and rocks with it, that middle ground doesn't exist anymore.

Moneyneversleeps said:

You have to prioritize your spending.

Your post made so much sense. I couldn't agree more

The whole argument of preferred seating equals Fast Lane doesn't hold up...EVERYONE gets one flight or one game...Fast Lane users can get several rides on the same ride while those in the regular line only get one ride. That is a huge difference. As far as profits go, how are the many regular guests going to be able to spend money if they are trapped in line for much more time. They should be focusing on ways to keep more guests out of the queues so they will have the ability to spend money. Who wants to buy a pop in line when they have no idea when they might actually be able to get to a restroom. I always knew there was an hour wait from the pop machines while in line for Millennium Force...now, it's anyone's guess.

Moneyneversleeps said:
I encourage everyone complaining about the price of fast lane and it being for the rich to think about what you spend your money on. I was at the park recently and used fast lane. I noticed people at the concession stands without fast lane buying the overpriced food and drinks. For example, I was behind one individual who ordered a soda drink and cheese nachos. His bill was over $10. I then ordered my free ice water and went on my way skipping the lines with my fast lane pass.

You have to prioritize your spending.

I agree with that too! That's why I don't spend a dime on food in the park and pack my own every time I go, because I have other priorities to take care of outside of leisure time.

But, there is always going to be that certain crowd of people who think those nachos and pop in the souveneir cup are more important than blowing it on a wristband to ride all of the rides, and have no money to spend after all of the rides are done. Although you can repeat rides, as crazy as it sounds, one time around is enough for quite a few people