Fast Lane

rpbobcat said:

When we started out in the morning the ground rules were that, if a coaster had a line,we could do 2 rides (front/back,etc.) but then we had to go to another ride or wait at least 30 minutes for another "lap".Seems to me this should apply ot FL.

The VIP tour still has a very tangible benefit in that you get right on and on any seat you want, often on the very next train. Fast Lane users still have to (a) wait behind whoever may be in front of them on the Fast Lane line, and (b) still need to wait for choice seats if they choose to do so. I think the no quick re-ride policy for the VIP tours is OK in that respect.

I'm glad that the fixed ride capacity was brought up because that's really at the heart of this whole thing. If Fast Lane users are riding more (particularly on the big 3) than those in standby lines, then wait times for those in the standby line absolutely must increase because capacity has not changed.

I'm not in favor of hard caps on the number of rides you can get with Fast Lane (even on the big 3) because the ideal cap number is going to change day to day. A busy Saturday with 2 hour standby lines will yield a significantly lower cap than will a day sporting 15 minute waits. It's simply too hard to create a hard cap that works well in every circumstance.

Jeff said:

UpsideDown said:
VIP tours are way more limited than Fast Lane is, plus VIP tours decreased ride capacity by a fraction of a percent, while Fast Lane is decreasing ride capacity by a substantial amount.

Ride capacity doesn't change. Ever. A ride can either give a thousand rides per hour or it can't. It doesn't matter if those people come from one line, two lines or dropped in to the station via helicopter.

Ok ok, you are right I guess the better term would be throughput.

No, because no matter what a 1000 pph hour ride is going to put through 1000 people per hour. Whether there are VIPs, FL or just regular guests waiting in line. That number doesn't change.

gad198 said:

rpbobcat said:

When we started out in the morning the ground rules were that, if a coaster had a line,we could do 2 rides (front/back,etc.) but then we had to go to another ride or wait at least 30 minutes for another "lap".Seems to me this should apply ot FL.

The VIP tour still has a very tangible benefit in that you get right on and on any seat you want, often on the very next train. Fast Lane users still have to (a) wait behind whoever may be in front of them on the Fast Lane line, and (b) still need to wait for choice seats if they choose to do so. I think the no quick re-ride policy for the VIP tours is OK in that respect.

If it wasn't for trying to make the day easier for my dad,we probably never would have done the V.I.P Tour ,but I can say it was the best day we ever had at C.P.

We thought the two ride policy was more then fair.

With the V.I.P. Tour,it wasn't so much the number of times we got to ride each coaster,but the fact that you could just walk up and go on.

We were there on a drizzly day,so some rides like Wildcat were down now and then.It was also nice that our Tour Guide could check with Park Operations by radio so we wouldn't go over to a ride that was down,or we could time ourselves for a ride a ride was due to reopen.

JuggaLotus said:
No, because no matter what a 1000 pph hour ride is going to put through 1000 people per hour. Whether there are VIPs, FL or just regular guests waiting in line. That number doesn't change.

Ok ok, so what do you call the hourly numbers you would write on the DOR? Whatever you want to call that, the more you devote to Fast Lane, the more it irritates the regular queue.

The main problem people seem to be having here (rightfully so) is the negative impact this new system has on the "standby" riders who now have to wait through a line that is possibly longer than it used to be.

For all the years that the VIP program has been in place, people haven't really complained that much about it. Lines were probably lengthened by maybe 1% every now and then when a VIP jumped in front of them. Now Fast Lane has the ability to double typical waits on certain rides. Given that 1% is fine to live with and 100% is "unacceptable" to some people, at what point are you fine with it? 50%? 15%?

But aside from the short-lived Dragster split, none of the bitching and moaning comes from first-hand experience. It's all based in fear that they might be disadvantaged, without actually having been there.

djDaemon said:
I've not made any proclamations regarding FL. I'm merely pointing out that your proclamations lack supporting facts.

As for TTD, again, they're no longer reserving the entire front loading platform for FL riders. They're now mixing FL riders with standard riders in the front, while the back is entirely standard. That results in not doubling the wait. The math is pretty straightforward.

Thing is, they're only mixing when the Fast Lane doesn't fill up a train load in the queue. When Fast Lane DOES fill up a whole train in the queue, then the standard riders don't move into the first platform. Thus, the doubled time in queue still applies when FL is marathon'ing TTD.

Was at Cedar Point Tuesday thru Thursday with FL each day. Best days ever at CP. We originally were only going to stay 2 days, but, decided to add a third. I do not believe some of the increased wait times on TTD were as bad as some would like you to believe. Over the three days and somewhere around 40 cycles on TTD, I saw people without wristbands every time in the first loading or FL station. The ride operators are mixing the lines as they can. Does FL have an impact, well duh, that is simple math. The rest of the lines had FL and regular lines were well mixed.

I have been lurking around here for a while, but, never posted until today. Amazingly, the only rude behavior I encountered with FL has been here at Pointbuzz. Many people were inquisitive asking what I thought and was it really worth it.

I do work in the amusement park industry as an electrical engineer working for many of the manufactures you all know, and know some people in the Disney, Cedar Fair, etc. organizations. You must realize that they all have stockholders to answer to. This system is a money maker plain and simple and is here to stay.

You might want to look and see what Disney recently did with their season pass pricing as a hint where I believe things are heading. Thirty plus park visits a season with a pass that cost $160.00 is not a good business plan.

Have fun with some facts.

Cheers

Sealedseven said:

Thing is, they're only mixing when the Fast Lane doesn't fill up a train load in the queue. When Fast Lane DOES fill up a whole train in the queue, then the standard riders don't move into the first platform. Thus, the doubled time in queue still applies when FL is marathon'ing TTD.

Actually, on May 18th, only six days after opening day, I was there and purchased FL. The crew on TTD were not filling the front train with FL users exclusively. We had a 20 minute wait compared to the 1 1/2 hour wait in the regular line. They were filling the front train about half and half, FL and Non FL, no matter how full.the FL line was. It was still a great experience for us but this whole front train is for FL users only is not even close to right. And this is not heresy, I was there and experienced this myself.

vwhoward said:

Sealedseven said:

Thing is, they're only mixing when the Fast Lane doesn't fill up a train load in the queue. When Fast Lane DOES fill up a whole train in the queue, then the standard riders don't move into the first platform. Thus, the doubled time in queue still applies when FL is marathon'ing TTD.

Actually, on May 18th, only six days after opening day, I was there and purchased FL. The crew on TTD were not filling the front train with FL users exclusively. We had a 20 minute wait compared to the 1 1/2 hour wait in the regular line. They were filling the front train about half and half, FL and Non FL, no matter how full.the FL line was. It was still a great experience for us but this whole front train is for FL users only is not even close to right. And this is not heresy, I was there and experienced this myself.

Weird. Cause few days after they were not doing that. I think it depends on whoever is working the turnstile now....

[quote}

I agree with that too! That's why I don't spend a dime on food in the park and pack my own every time I go, because I have other priorities to take care of outside of leisure time.

Except for one thing. You're not allowed to bring your own food into the park. Of course they're not super strict about it, but some people might just feel uncomfortable not following the rules, and most people just might not know that they don't really check or care that much.

We pack our own lunch...just a few cold sandwiches and drinks in the cooler and keep it in the car. Get stamped, go to car, eat for like 45 minutes, and head back in.

RideEngineer said:
This system is a money maker plain and simple and is here to stay.

Exactly right, parks will operate in they way they find to be most profitable.

Many people here are probably too young to remember the days before a one price admission. My history with Cedar Point goes back to the days when they had individual ride tickets and ride ticket books, which had various amounts of tickets at a discount. Then they offered one price wristbands.

So, back in the 60's they had two tiers of customers, those which paid general admission and bought ride tickets and those which paid general admission and bought a ride all day one price wrist band. When I was a kid with a wrist band, and I was Marathoning Blue Streak, you better believe that the kid who was only able to ride once because mom and dad bought him an individual ride ticket would be a little jealous. Back then, it was "mom, please buy me a wrist band, please, please!"

It was only in the 70's, 80's and 90's that all customers were equal. That era has obviously come to an end. You can buy a regular admission, ride as many rides as you want, but wait in the slow line. Upgrade to Fast Lane and do a hell of a lot more riding with a lot less waiting. The regular line will move a little slower, but so what, at least you can get to ride as much as you want unlike the poor kid with individual tickets back in the 60's.

Those of you worrying about how fast the line moves, either buy a Fast Lane or don't worry about it and enjoy your day. Amusement parks now have a multi-tier pricing structure. You pay more, you ride more. As simple as that. Get used to it. As Rideengineer said, it's here to stay.

RideEngineer said:You might want to look and see what Disney recently did with their season pass pricing as a hint where I believe things are heading. Thirty plus park visits a season with a pass that cost $160.00 is not a good business plan.

Have fun with some facts.

Cheers

Sorry not to go off topic but what did Disney change? If you're talking about blackout dates they've had those for years, and I don't think the Annual Price went up any substantial amount for a Disneyland Annual Pass did it? I think last time I shopped around it was around 400 something.

Yeah, DL passes just went way up. They're trying to thin the AP mix because it's crushing the parks.

Alright, I went on Friday and it was totally packed, I'm so glad I decided to cough up the cheddar for a Fast Lane. As to the number of them sold, when in the Fast Lane line, we were never with more then 10 other FL-ers, if that. With the exception of Dragster, which did have a solid amount of FL people. For Raptor, TTD, Mantis, and one or two others I'm sure, the merge point made it so we waited about 10-30 minutes, depending on how fast the ride loaded, not that we minded, as we had already skipped an hour or more of waiting. The raptor line at 11 am was easily over 2 hours long.

Now I am someone who has a season pass for the first time this year, someone who plans to travel the three hours away 4-5 times this year. I was with two friends who do not have the pass. They go once a year, and so this one time, we splurged. I wouldn't do it more than once or twice a year.

As to the big debate, if lines are longer for "normies". Honestly, with the exception of TTD (or possibly MF, I could not ride it so cannot comment), you wait an extra train or two, if that. For the rumor that the front train was all FL on TTD, that is false, the merge point is before that.

RideEngineer: You stated that $160.00 for a season pass is not a good business plan. Are you kidding? I bought my platinum pass last fall for $149.00! Actually, there's more to it than that. I'm assuming that you are advocating a sharp increase in the price of season passes since apparently they are such bargains with the current price structure. For starters, not every passholder can go to the park "thirty plus" times. I live 200 miles away and can't just go whenever the mood hits me. And I think if we could get our hands on the geographic distribution of passholders, you would see that I'm not the only one by far who has to limit his visits because of distance from the park. Second, I don't go alone. I have brought friends, family and coworkers with me, many of whom DO NOT have season passes. Guess what? We eat in the park. We buy souvenirs. When I bring my wife and kids, we stay at Hotel Breakers. My one season pass--which is such a bargain that Cedar Point should steeply increase its price--has generated a fair amount of additional revenue for the park over the years. Cedar Point is not Disney; I don't care where the new CEO hails from. Cedar Point has been voted Best Amusement Park in the World for 14 consecutive years--a fact that the park promotes heavily. Amazingly, they accomplished this feat without any type of Fast Lane system, even as Six Flags, Disney, and others promoted their own versions of such systems. Interesting. Well, if something isn't broken, fix it 'til it is. Go ahead and have your Fast Lane. You do a Disney with the price of my season pass, and my business is not the only business that Cedar Point will lose.

angirl013 said:For the rumor that the front train was all FL on TTD, that is false, the merge point is before that.

It wasn't a rumor really. It used to be like that. It changed now after how horrible the other was.

I'd like to see the season pass prices increase a little, but in return they would include Fast Pass.