Extended Closure

For sure, and yet they prove they can do OK with others. Twisted Timbers at KD comes to mind. They have the same locker/nothing in pockets requirement but the layout and execution is so much better. It's mind boggling.

Scott Cameron:

But I'm sure there's also many others who bought it and felt, "never again." In fact I know as much just based on Facebook chatter. Despite running my own CP Facebook group (which is about drinks and bartenders and not park ops), I don't visit the others at all like CP nation, CP uncensored, etc. My wife is a member of them though and she shows me posts those people make nearly daily showing the ridiculous FL+ lines. Some of those groups have 80K+ members and people are complaining, a lot.

Yogi Berra comes to mind. No one goes there anymore; its too crowded. No one finds value in FL anymore; there are too many people in FL lines. LOL

Make it a 15 minute wait and some people will want 10. Make it 10 and someone will want 5. Never will you please everyone. Realistic goal is to find a balance. There isn't an exact science to saying where that is. And it will vary throughout the season and each day of operations. Not clear there is an actual problem with it the way it works now. Maybe there is but its just not clear. What is clear though there are some people for whom its a problem. And others for whom its not.

Now I'm sure those could certainly be skewed samples but it is pretty consistent.

My experience with social media is its often times a bitch-fest. Say you had a great time somewhere and you get a couple of likes. Say you had the worst time ever/never going back and you get a ton of people piling one with something of a mob mentality.

The whole "best day ever" and all that.

There is a balance here as well. Someone will always find something to complain about. Question are numbers and whether its impacting the bottom line (both near and long term).

Then again, I've already renewed my family's 2025 passes with all season Fastlane so I guess I'm part of the problem for not voting with my wallet. It's easier to swallow though since it's only "costing" me <$50 per visit as opposed to $165 and up.

I am a bigger part of the problem because I am buying at the daily rate. I don't personally know anyone who has all season FL though I know a lot of daily rate buyers. But its ok because I was also part of the problem more than a decade ago when I was buying water in the park (I think it was $3/4). A new thread would pop up from time to time here with people complaining about how evil that was. At least those days are gone.

they need to raise the price on fast lane to whatever amount reduces the demand to the point where fast lane waits don't exceed 10 minutes, 15 absolute tops.

I think this much easier said than done. At a minimum, it would need to be FL lines don't exceed x minutes more than y% of the time. Will vary by day of the week, time of the season and during any given day. Based on a number of factors. Some of which are more predictable/controllable than others. And I think there is a lot of price sensitivity. Small dollar changes in price likely leads to significant changes in demand. And that will vary as well.

GoBucks89:

Make it a 15 minute wait and some people will want 10. Make it 10 and someone will want 5... My experience with social media is its often times a bitch-fest... Someone will always find something to complain about...

The existence of Karens doesn't mean that everything is awesome. Bitching and legitimate complaining are not mutually exclusive. You keep talking about balance and variations and ranges, and that those are things doesn't mean they're right today either.

As for raising the price, we're already talking about people spending in excess of a hundred bucks a day to cut the line. That's already the demographic that is probably not all that sensitive to pricing. There's room to hike it.

^I think we're both on the same page, albeit differing ends of it. And yes, I was reluctant to use social media as an example for the reasons you mention. The main reason I did was to point out that there are people that notice. But you're right, a skewed sample for sure as I mentioned. I should also mention though that I was being very generous with the 50% of standby complaint I made earlier.

Last time we rode SV (7/7), using FL+, it took an hour. The standby line posted was 1:15. The daily rate that day was $165. If you'd have been OK with that, more power to you I guess. I wouldn't have, and I'm sure a majority of others wouldn't have either. These longer FL waits seem to be worse this year and the only "solution" I can think of is to raise the price. What other solution is there?

GoBucks89:

I think this much easier said than done. At a minimum, it would need to be FL lines don't exceed x minutes more than y% of the time. Will vary by day of the week, time of the season and during any given day. Based on a number of factors. Some of which are more predictable/controllable than others. And I think there is a lot of price sensitivity. Small dollar changes in price likely leads to significant changes in demand. And that will vary as well.

I don't agree here. The park knows how many they sell each day, they have historical data, they know how many people ride using standby per hour, they know how many use FL per hour. You don't think they can use all that data to accomplish a price that will lead to a certain FL wait time per ride, per day, per hour? I think they can.

You mention price sensitivity. As Jeff says, were looking at a demographic that can afford it for sure. But, as you say too, for every X they raise the price, Y will choose not to buy it. Therefore, they can find an equilibrium price that results in a lower wait. My complaint is that they're either A, not using the data to find that equilibrium or B (more likely) used the data to develop their current pricing strategy that results in higher overall revenue at the expense of overall guest satisfaction. Is it working now? Sure. Will it last long-term? I doubt it.

JUnderhill is right too though, re-configuring the SV and MF Fastlane queues would go a long way, even if they kept the current pricing structure. I always wondered why they changed the MF Batcave exit from Fastlane back to a Batcave exit, LOL.

Scott Cameron:

Last time we rode SV (7/7), using FL+, it took an hour. The standby line posted was 1:15.

I don't remember, what is the general wait time from the merge point?

On three train ops without a long backup at the re-merge area after using the lockers, it's usually 20-30 minutes. But I've had it where there is an extra 10-15 minutes waiting to get back in line after dropping my stuff off at the lockers.

^Shades, as Cartwright said, with 3 train operation it's roughly 15 minutes (for me-if I don't have a non-rider I use the pay lockers because the free ones are a mess) from the merge point. The hour wait I experienced was the total wait time, including the Fastlane pre-merge queue and the trough after the merge point.

As an aside, the fact that there's even a Fastlane pre-merge queue is testimont to my opinion of their problem.

Yikes - a 15-20 minute additional wait just to get back in the line after putting stuff in a free locker? What is causing that?

I guess I have been fortunate to only go on slow days where the Fast Lane gets you directly at the merge point.

Haha like like we've been saying, worst queue in the amusement industry 😂

That is not a queue issue. Something else is driving that. I have used that same queue from the merge point and have never experienced anything like that. In fact I have never had so much as a 1 minute delay getting back into the line after I put my stuff in a free locker. And once you hit the merge point it does not matter how crowded the park is because the number of people from the merge point to the loading platform is going to be the same. There has to be something else causing that problem.

There are 2 things going on there, horrible que design to start off with. Then add in the complete mismanagement and inconsistency of how the locker checkpoint and then the 2 separate ques are handled.

I have several scenarios that I have witnessed causing back ups in this area and there are 2 extremes. The first is the one I mentioned above where the left que after the lockers is dedicated to only those using the locker. In this scenario they have gone back into the line finding those way behind you who need a locker. These locker seekers are then directed straight to the lockers then to left que. In this instance some people who started off behind you in line end up riding 20 minutes before you do if you did not need a locker.

The next extreme is where they will just send anyone to any line. In this case it can become a bottleneck with the people trying to get back in line from the lockers. This scenario can increase the wait time for those needing a locker and is the opposite of the first scenario.

Most of the time there is a hybrid scenario involving a mix of the ones above. In all of these scenarios I have witnessed non-fast lane riders pass those with fast lanes in this mess of a que. This goes back to my original comment about the value of a CP FL being watered down by poor design and mis-management of the line.

I will pay attention to what they are doing at the locker check point and then make up my mind if I have something to put in a locker or not. If they are sending only locker users to the left line I will say I have something even though I don’t. It easily shaves 10-15 minutes off the line in most cases.

I completely agree; the fast lane at Cedarpoint has got to be one of the worst values, especially considering how few FL folks they let through vs. the standby line AND the horrible merge points.

JUnderhill:

I will pay attention to what they are doing at the locker check point and then make up my mind if I have something to put in a locker or not.

We do the exact same thing. More often than not, the left side is cruising while the right side is for whatever reason bottlenecked. Then again on our last trip it was completely flip-flopped. No consistency. I will say, though, that the overall "hauling-ass" of the ride crew at SV has been top-notch on each of our visits.

On the topic of TT2, I would fully expect them to open the ride during Halloweekends if it was possible, regardless of how many days it would be open for.

On the same token, I have zero expectations of it being ready to go until 2025.

Happy to be wrong.

Kevinj:

On the topic of TT2, I would fully expect them to open the ride during Halloweekends if it was possible, regardless of how many days it would be open for.

The only reason why I disagree with this is if its ready in late October, can they even get a crew(s) trained up intime to even open it, and will Cedar pay to train up a crew?

^^ The Steel Vengeance ride crew has been top notch this year, a few of the crew came over after TT2 shut down. I feel bad for these workers as they do the best they can to get people onto and off the ride quickly and most important safely. All the while they are stuck trying to manage the mess caused by the poor design of the que and lack of consistent direction of upper management. Nonetheless they do their jobs well, one of the best ride crews in the park IMO.

For sure. We were joking in line a few weeks ago that Peggy Bertsch and Bill Spehn got tired of retirement and are secretly running some kind of illicit underground efficient coaster operations business at Steel Vengeance this year.

Beanie :

can they even get a crew(s) trained up intime to even open it, and will Cedar pay to train up

They had one in April. I saw it first hand.

Right, but do they still have that crew at this point? Even if they did i'd imagine they'd still have to retrain on the ride. All I'm asking is, does Cedar think its work it to train the crew back up for the ride for only (potentially) a few weekends.

If the ride gets the all clear to operate, then I'm sure they'll make something work. There's plenty of options at their disposal. Whether or not the ride gets the all clear to operate is a different matter though. It's really starting to feel like an August reopening is not even going to happen. Not much visible work has happened after that weekend of testing and 3D scanning and Silver train is once again in limbo with parts of it disassembled.....

Kevinj:

We do the exact same thing. More often than not, the left side is cruising while the right side is for whatever reason bottlenecked. Then again on our last trip it was completely flip-flopped. No consistency. I will say, though, that the overall "hauling-ass" of the ride crew at SV has been top-notch on each of our visits.

Not to derail here but Busch gardens Tampa needs to learn from Cedar Fair (Six Flags) on how to dispatch a train. I have had so many people tell me Iron Gwazi is a 5 minute dispatch where as so many people praise the SV crew

The crews at Carowinds and especially Fury 325 are awesome too.

Anyone know how the TT2 crew was for the short time it operated?