Extended Closure

Well it is hard to quantify,

but the amount of free press and publicity they got for many years off the ride has to be figured in.

so the ROI was more than likely there.

now the ROI on other duds… that’s questionable;

-rougaroo

-the onion patch weird character thing

• the boat ride reimagined
• the beach revitalization/theme parties

Yeah -- it would be hard to quantify the hard dollars for TTD but I guarantee you it's on the map. The Dragster theme was widespread and put the park on the map. To argue new rides don't represent a huge opportunity is foolish.

What is "the onion patch"?

Kevinj, I was wondering the same thing, and I certainly hope it wasn't referring to the Sunflower "Field of Hope". I'm not saying that's what is referred to, just speculating.

I certainly poke fun at things on here and often contribute smart-a$$ comments, but I really don't approve of mocking a cause such as Prayers from Maria which began after a horrible loss for a family.

Again, maybe it was referring to something else like weed patch where Cedars used to be.....

Onion patch was referenced by same poster in this thread:

https://forums.pointbuzz.co...e_vignette

I think the beach revitalization was a huge success. Since the beach was already there all they had to do was remove what was in the way and utilize the natural beauty of what they have sitting there. Financially I can't imagine the items that were part of that project being a failure either such as Gatekeeper, the Grand Pavilion, Lakeside Pavilion etc... There have always been boats near the Cedar Point beach but I cannot recall seeing as many as have been there this year. Outside of a few bad weather days the beach and Boardwalk have been fairly busy this season. Boardwalk nights is also a pretty fun event, much better than I expected as there are little events and shows going on every 15 minutes or so in different locations. If I have any complaint I wish they had some more food options other than the coney dog.

I agree, Boardwalk Nights really exceeded my expectations. A lot of talent, I was impressed. Hoping to make it back before it ends.

Cedar Pointer:

I get why you wouldn't understand that though seeing as it wasn't in Hildebrant's Book.

Do you think that being a dick is going to increase your longevity here? What's your source? If you're quoting the TEA/AECOM numbers, I can guarantee you that they're wrong.

Actually, doesn't matter. One year out of 29 that was higher makes not a trend, or even a vague generalization. You don't have the "gotcha" that you think, you have an anecdote. 28 other years did not exceed 1994.

Furthermore, if the park had as little as 3 million visitors, most rides under current operations aren't even doing 1.5 million rides, so at best, only 50% of the visitors even ride the new hotness. Less of a percentage if attendance is higher.

Attendance will not suffer from the lack of Top Thrill 2, let alone harm the larger company. No amount of hand wringing here will change that.

Jeff:

I and others have explained to you why this isn't the case, with evidence. Attendance and guest spending are the business, and these are not affected by one ride, as attendance trends show.

As is often the case here, this thread is all over the place, and I’m losing track of who is arguing what. But, I want to point out that, although Hildebrant wrote that they did not realize a permanent increase in base level attendance following the introduction of a new major attraction, he immediately followed that by saying that you couldn’t control the weather, but you could control the right attraction. And his book is replete with examples of how a new attraction did or did not boost attendance as expected. His book has plenty of examples of how they looked forward to that one-year attendance boost.

So, I am pretty sure that Cedar Fair would have liked to see that one-year bump reflected in their next annual report. As it now stands, they are probably hoping that the attendance numbers will nevertheless be good enough to offset the lack of the anticipated boost, allowing them to downplay the impact of the ride closure.

There you go, Tom, trying to provide appropriate context for the Holy Scripture that is the Hildebrant book (and making points that actually make economic/ business sense).

Be prepared to be punished for economic rationality.

As has been noted, the fact that Top Thrill 2 has a “disastrous” first season is not on its own going to have a significant impact on the relationship between Cedar Point and Zamperla. What is far more important is how Zamperla is responding to the situation. If Zamperla provides best in class support to get the ride up and running, the down time this first season will be very quickly forgiven. If Zamperla has the attitude “it’s your ride now, it’s your problem not ours” then yes, this down time will be significant.

Almost every ride that goes over 100MPH has had some major problems with it at some point.

-Superman the Escape: Opened 10 months late

-Tower of Terror (Dreamworld): More or less a clone of Superman, so they fixed most of the initial issues

-Top Thrill Dragster: Threw a decorative tire in it’s first season (they got lucky it was on the lagoon side rather than the queue side), closed half it’s first season, sprayed shards of metal all over the riders when the cable frayed, thew a flag plate into someone standing in line, took ~5 years to get the ride to be reliable enough that it wasn’t a crap shoot if it would actually be open when you visited the park

-Kinda Ka: Shredded the bottom of a train during a test launch

-Ring Racer: There was an explosion in the launch system. The ride never ran over 100MPH

--Dodonpa / Do-Dodonpa – A passenger was hit by a part of the train (plastic cover), incidents of broken bones on the ride

- Formula Rossa: Been closed since January (at least 6 months as of writing this) with no re-opening date given

-Red Force: I’m not aware of any major incidents on this ride.

Unless there is a Red Force incident that I’m not aware of, It took Intamin 20 years of building 100+ MPH coasters to create a new design without significant issues. S&S attempted to build 2 100+ MPH coaster, neither of which are operating. It just isn’t realistic to think that there wasn’t going to be a non-trivial risk of something leading to significant down time. Disappointing – absolutely. This is very disappointing, but at this point, that is all it is. Very disappointing.

Today is the first time I’ve been at the park since last Friday morning but at that time silver train was fully assembled including all seats and the seat back covers. Today a row of seats are missing and the covers are off again. I didn’t see anyone actively working on it but it’s a change from the last time I was here.

Some schools are starting this week for the 24-25 year. Even more schools sports programs have started.
The park is under 4 weeks from reduced operating days and the unofficial end of summer Labor Day.

With no visual testing happening at all, I don’t see a summer opening for TT2. Perhaps halloweekends.

Maybe those extra 2 days they added to the season are because Zamperla expects the ride to open by then.

*sarcastic eyeroll*

This won't be a summer-long thing . . . .

Time for my monthly post about Zamperla's own spokesman stating they were "pushing the boundaries of engineering".

Did Zamperla bite off more than they can chew? This wasn't even a brand new ride. Half the ride was already built for them.

I mentioned this last week but I do wonder if the park is not able to get TT2 up and running this month would they still try and open it for the weekends only operations? Or call it a wash for the season? Or do they open it for whatever time they can get in?

My guess is that if they are confident it is really fixed, they will open it then, regardless of how few days are remaining in the season. They'll get some real-world runs in, build confidence amongst the public that it will be running next season, and provide a little guest goodwill. The only caviat I see is if there is staffing issue.

Personally I think it would be silly to open a ride for a handful of days. What's the rush? Keep it closed, work on it all offseason, and then open it day 1 2025 and give it a 100% reliability rating and we're golden.

Once the ride is deemed safe to operate I also agree that CP would open it regardless of the days remaining in the season. If they are given the green light on October 31st it would be open on the bonus days of 11-1 and 11-2. That being said I do not have much confidence that it will re-open this season.

The last time I walked by the ride yesterday there was a group of 5 workers leaving the exit, one was from Cedar Point and there was also one from Carowinds, Valley Fair and Kings Dominion. I could not tell where the last person was from but they did have the Cedar Fair logo on their sleeve. I tried to eavesdrop on them but it was loud and I failed to hear what they were talking about, could have been the upcoming football season for all I know. My one and only shot to get the inside scoop and I failed!