Extended Closure

Yes, the 2 cap screws that held the flag plate onto the train sheared off from impact overload.

It's been a long time since I read that report, so I'm going off memory here.

But I remember there being talk of frequent self-loosening and retorquing of brake fin bolts, as well as strange noises (in hindsight indicative of loose track/brake fin parts) the day of and immediately preceding the accident that were noted, not thoroughly investigated, the source of the noises were not conclusively identified and the ride was permitted to resume operations anyway.

I don't recall if there was a direct connection explicity stated in the report that concluded that the flag plate made contact with loose track/brake parts, or if it was just implied or indirectly suggested such that the inference would be concluded by the reader.

But what I recall from reading that report way back when is that I at least drew the conclusion that the flag plate likely came off as a result of unintended contact with loose track parts- contact that wouldn't have happened has those track parts not been loose.

My impression at the time was that the report was written delicately in such a way as to not directly point the finger at CP personnel for continuing to operate the ride under those conditions, but to illustrate that point in such a way that the reader would reasonably infer, connect the dots and put 2 and 2 together.

^^ When I read the report I focused on the wording that the fastener “ backed out “ and the point of failure was 1/2” below the fastener head. I did not see anything implying that a brake fin failed which caused the contact. That would be an unjustifiably huge item to omit from the investigation. The only method of failure that was discussed in the report is that a fastener holding the plate to the train failed.

edit: I am looking for the report online to verify the wording but all I can come up with is a site that makes you watch an ad every 10 seconds or subscribe to their service. All I see available for free online via images is what I quoted above.

Bottom line this justifies all the people that questioned CP going with Zamperla for a project of this magnitude. It is now August and still broken down.

JUnderhill:

I focused on the wording that the fastener “ backed out “ and the point of failure was 1/2” below the fastener head.

Some verbiage along those lines sounds vaguely familiar. But even one of the two flag plate screws had backed out a little bit, a shear fracture a half inch down may well still indicate impact with loose track parts causing the shear.

So then the question becomes, was the impact between flag plate and track that let to the shear and separation of the flag plate a result of the track parts being loose, one of the two flag plate bolts loosening by a few turns or whatever, or a combination of the two, where one or the other wouldn't have caused the accident, but the two together would.

I don't have time to find the report and comb through it right now, but if you happen to do so and re-read I'd be curious what your impressions are.

At this point Master D, I tend to agree. Let's be clear here PPRD (Pointbuzz Public Relations Department), I never had a horse in this race or even an opinion on who would do the redesign. Honestly I wasn't even paying attention.

However, this rides papa OG Dragster taught me one thing, ride it immediately when you have the chance. Thankfully I was blessed enough to listen to such gut feelings and plan a small overnight stay in early May. Lot's of driving to get on a couple rides and head home, but with time, ended up being the wise decision. Props go to God, the simulation or sheer dumb luck. Whatever you prefer.

Back in 2003 I was 12 years old, I actually rode Dragster the day of the blackout in August of 2003 and it was my first trip! The day following power was back on and I got one more lap in along with absurdly light crowds for early August at the park. My fate, was sealed!

I can totally see why CP went with Zamp and it makes all the sense on paper, maybe. At this point Cedar Point would've made a better choice with Intamin ( I think we can agree it wouldn't have been worse at this point). It's entirely possible long term this is nothing. But for now, its a serious miscalculation to think this doesn't matter. It does, especially for a company that cares for nothing other than money. The s**t you pay for better work, because you've cut everything else.

Also wheres the update? Ya know, for the people not living in Florida who haven't had the privilege to ride early? It's not surprising from a public traded company, but again, short sided. The amount of respect and loyalty gained by telling the truth cannot be underestimated. Listening and making decisions based on perceived negative "Press/comments" is pathetic. Humans have and always will respect honesty..... Mostly lol. You wanna calm down the 10 idiots online who are speculating on TT2 and controlling the narrative? Maybe create one of you're own? Provide some clarity and admit you've screwed up? God forbid. Nah let's operate under the assumption "It might open" because the general public doesn't know any better.

Humans love to see another fellow human fall. We also love the rise back, take advantage of that Cedar Flags.

Also TTD120 (Adam) you can say whatever you want on here, it's not necessary to write a paragraph with a meme of self deprecation to make a solid, informed opinion. That's just my opinion mind you! Much respect!

Now, I'll see myself out.

Çp4€và04:

Also wheres the update?

Why would assume there is an update to share? And why the belief that anyone is owed an update?

Outside of the irrelevant enthusiast community (AKA "the 10 idiots online"), no one cares. Judging by the scant availability of lodging this weekend throughout their properties the park is doing just fine with TT2 SBNO.

Çp4€và04:
Also TTD120 (Adam) you can say whatever you want on here, it's not necessary to write a paragraph with a meme of self deprecation to make a solid, informed opinion.

It's not necessary? I could have sworn it was.

They’ve determined the short term gains outweigh any damage to their reputation.

I feel the way they’ve handled it is just an extension of the elitism you feel interacting with cedarpoint pr.

"Elitism?" Is that directed at Adam? If it is, that's not cool. He's a humble guy, has always been friendly to me, and you'd be lucky to know him. Furthermore, on the "pr" side, Tony has been a friend for almost two decades now. In addition to being one of the best in his profession, he's also a fantastic, kind and excellent human being. So maybe stick to what you know.

Master D:

Bottom line this justifies all the people that questioned CP going with Zamperla for a project of this magnitude.

This sentiment is entirely predicated on the idea that some other company would have had a different outcome. I'm not sure that there was another company willing to do it.

Çp4€và04:
Nah let's operate under the assumption "It might open" because the general public doesn't know any better.

The "general public," not to mention the enthusiast community, doesn't know any better. Someone who has been on a thousand roller coasters isn't any more qualified to know what's going on than a fan of music is qualified to write a good song. When you lack expertise, you lean into emotion, which seems like our cultural direction in recent years. In either case, I don't think it's doing us any favors.

I was talking with someone on the inside some weeks ago who put it to me like this. Dragster never really worked, not reliably anyway, and a lot of the reason for that was that there wasn't enough room for the launch. This person further said, "Which is why we have a triple launch thing now, to account for the short space, though that just introduces a different kind of complexity." As someone who has done a lot of software integration projects, making one thing work in a particular environment, this resonates. The constraint is that the "best" course of action is to change the environment, but often you can't.

Not sure what my point is, but maybe it's that to me it's an issue of engineering and science, and the emotional issue that others want to make it is not relatable to me.

I totally wrote that wrong I meant the elitism that I feel when interacting with cedarpoint. I wanted to point out that it’s not just the enthusiasts that have felt that in recent years

DA20Pilot:

I don't have time to find the report and comb through it right now, but if you happen to do so and re-read I'd be curious what your impressions are.

I was coerced by my family to get a room at Breakers tonight so I’m not in the mood to research much either! Your memory of the report could be much more accurate than mine so perhaps it was something on the track that failed and came loose. I would just say if that were the case I hoped they would have made a much larger deal of that in the report.

We do have a room facing TT2 so hopefully something happens tonight lol!

Jeff:
He's a humble guy

Wait! Can I be an elitist.......just for a few minutes?

JUnderhill:

edit: I am looking for the report online to verify the wording but all I can come up with is a site that makes you watch an ad every 10 seconds or subscribe to their service. All I see available for free online via images is what I quoted above.

Allow me to refresh your memory.

Here is a breakdown of the timeline of events from the report. This is from a post made in this thread:

Report Timeline (stitched together from the various interviews):

8/2: 3rd shift was told to investigate a "ticking noise” in the brake run. Found that bolts on the “L brackets” were loose. 3rd shift ran out of time to finish tightening them all and assumed that the day shift did it. Reported that the brake-brackets are out of alignment.

8/13: 3rd shift had to tighten 16 brake-run bolts (hopefully the 8/2 bolts were eventually tightened?). Bracket again out of alignment. Removed bracket and re-aligned and installed with new stuff.

The key here is that this is where the damage on the track is. One could conclude that the bolts are routinely becoming loose, making the brackets loose, and also throwing them out of alignment.

8/14: Damage is noticed on the Black Cherry train (it was “hit” by something) and some metal was found in the guide wheel. No one could figure out how this happened.

8/15: In the morning, it is observed that several stop blocks (I don’t know what that means) have bolts that are sheered off on the launch side. No cause is ever found, and they are just replaced.

8/15: Later that day, maintenance is called because of “noises” coming from brakes. The mechanic finds some “bad bolts” (whatever that means) and replaces the blocks and bolts.

This guy, who is the last person to do something to this part of the track before the **** hits the fan, is in his very first season.

8/15: “The (left) flag plate on Green Train somehow caught the bracket”. This is the accident.

8/16: During the investigation, it’s found that the blue train (that did the test runs on 8/15 and was then parked) has “wear marks” on the left flag plate. The same piece is literally loose on the purple train. It’s also noticed that there are multiple bolts, brake fins, and brackets loose on both sides of the track in the brake run.

Everyone involved states that nothing was out of place/loose/worn the night before and/or that morning.

That’s it.

Also, here is where the flag plate hit:

If you're bored, you can still find the full report here

Interesting, so I guess the bottom line is were the brake fins coming loose the cause, was it parts on the train coming loose causing the contact. Or could it have been a previously unknown condition with the track causing all of the above to come loose that is just now coming to light. Seems like there are numerous unanswered questions from that. Appears I just focused on the fastener backed out comment

Outside of the irrelevant enthusiast community (AKA "the 10 idiots online"), no one cares. Judging by the scant availability of lodging this weekend throughout their properties the park is doing just fine with TT2 SBNO.

Shareholders care, and frankly deserve to know for being “owners” of the parent company. Otherwise shareholder confidence goes down and hurts bottomline.

Do you think that the nonavailability of one ride in an $8 billion company is a concern to stockholders? Merger activity aside, the company has mostly trended with the indexes.

Yes, a major cap ex is relevant. Cedar Point is one of about 6-7 parks that have the majority of the limelight on them even with the combined company. And this ride is not just any ride. It’s probably the largest investment out of all cap ex’s for 2024, six flags and cedar fair combined.

I’m not an expert. But after viewing and analyzing this post from beginning to the end, line by line, word by word, letter by letter, I came to the conclusion that I can’t say anything because as I said at the beginning, I'm not an expert.