Could CP Support a Concert Venue?

YouCEdarMyPoint said:
Oh for the love of God.

It must be really difficult to lower yourself to discuss topics of interest with lesser life forms.

Taking out the middle wall implies minor restructuring. The only "load" the middle wall has is the roof.

There was a reason why he put "middle wall" in quotes. But since we're moving from your financial expertise to your architectural expertise, please explain how removing the side of a building is minor.

Walt, you can totally tell that without that "wall" the roof would be fine, that nice open gap above the holding area will give the theatre a nice outdoor type breeze. Buildings don't need walls to stand up, it would still have 3 that's good enough right? I mean it's more than 2. Plus you could just strap a helicopter to the lower roof and lift it up to match the other roof's height right? Don't even need supports just keep the helicopter flying and give the pilot overtime pay. Trust me I saw that in a movie once.

I'd just use that giant red arrow as a roof support.

Ok, realistically to have the Good Time be a decent concert venue and utilize the holding area space they'd have to do a serious restructuring. The stage isn't oriented to use all the seating so they'd have to rebuild the entire fly loft which automatically means that would be a huge money sink. altering the building would probably be cheap compared to the cost to re rig everything. The seats alone to convert the outdoor section could run $50,000, theatrical seating is expensive. 99er was dead right. With enough money they could easily have a concert venue, but it with the other options around the area it wouldn't be used to potential.

You guys are funny. The misquoting and leaps of logic or just not reading a post are quite interesting. Refitting and restructuring the theater is easily done at a fraction of the cost of compared to any new facility. It may not be as ascetically pleasing as a new facility. Why would you even need the a roof in the first place if you want to change the use of the facility. Really guys, use a little imagination, I can't think of everything for you. The main thing is I agree with you. A concert venue would never come close to being economically feasible and that is why the building hasn't been revamped for other use or a new facility built.

YouCEdarMyPoint said:
Really guys, use a little imagination, I can't think of everything for you.

There's the condescending attitude that makes people not like you.

I do this professionally. Yeah new facilities are expensive, but a shell of a building like the Goodtime is, doesn't cost that much. The gear inside is where the expenses are. Without a roof those expenses go up even more because all the gear has to be weatherproofed. So at this point you're a business expert, architect, and know the intricacies of the entertainment industry too? You're talking new rigging, (most likely) LED lighting, show control, sound equipment, new line arrays, new stage floor, taking a roof off a building, running new electrical, you're talking millions to really convert it the way it should be.

When you really and truly give us something to back up your arguments and can show that you aren't just making it up as you go, then maybe we'll pay attention. But I'd put good money on the fact that you don't know anything about outfitting a theatre.

.

But I'd put good money on the fact that you don't know anything about outfitting a theatre.

You got me there, I know next to nothing about rigging a theatre. Why don't you educate me and all the other experts why a new facility wouldn't need all of the theater rigging also? Maybe if people stopped feeling so superior and listen to other valid points they wouldn't be so offended all the time. If you don't want to believe I know what I am talking about that's up to you, no skin off my back if you like me or not. That doesn't change reality that the park doesn't have a concert venue because the cost of such facility (new or remodeled) can't be supported by the Sandusky area or the park to justify the cost.

A new facility would also need that. You asked why you couldn't just change the building they've got. My point, which you're apparently choosing to ignore was that, the cost of renovating or building a new facility is negligible because the cost of the stuff that goes inside would be the same either way. The money you'd put into altering the current building would mean that a new one ultimately wouldn't be that much more expensive because updating everything wouldn't simply be the minor restructuring that you implied. Take your own advice and climb down from your high horse.

Josh, as a general rule I don't ride high horses or live in my own bubble world filled with video games or other gadgets. No I didn't ignore equipment cost. If you think construction cost are negligible for a facility you've got to put down your game controler and get some fresh air and sunlight every once in a while. Maybe I over simplified the renovation by saying they just had to tear down a wall; but, again the point is the facility is already available if management wanted to use it for a concert venue. Land is nearly always the most expensive single item in any construction project if you don't include labor cost. Renovating is almost always a fraction of the cost unless there are serious structural froblems with an existing facility. You're correct about reorienting the staging area and even portions of the theatre. That would be a more substantial and expensive remodel. I admit that didn't occur to me when I first posted (see I listen and learn, now we just have to work on other people); however, it would still be far cheaper than tearing it down and starting from scratch or moving it elsewhere to land that the park already owns.

YouCEdarMyPoint said:
Josh, as a general rule I don't ride high horses or live in my own bubble world...

I tried to keep a straight face, but I LOL'd here.

YouCEdarMyPoint said:

Oh for the love of God. Taking out the middle wall implies minor restructuring. The only "load" the middle wall has is the roof.

You had mentioned earlier about us needing to use our "imagination", well I think it's time you did the same. Like I said before taking out the "middle wall" can't be done on a building with only 4 walls and nothing in side to support weight. Now I can understand the first and only thing you thought of was that the wall only can support the weight and that's it. But let us look outside the box and take a trip to our imagination.

Say you remove the wall and only the wall, nothing else. You then have a structure that has become weaker and has had nothing else done to help support the fact an entire wall is gone. Now that wall does faces west-northwest which is where a majority of the wind comes from in that area. With strong winds that do happen throughout the year regularly there, you now have all of that funneling in on the opposite wall of an already weaker structure since the western wall was removed.

Now before you have a panic attack again let me calm you and give you this idea from my imagination. Say an idea in the distant future was to convert that into a concert venue. The best way to do that is to make the entire theater a duplicate of what the outdoor one next to it looks like. Which would require removing the roof, all of the walls, enclosing the backstage are so it is it's own building, and then building a raised metal roof like is on the outdoor theater. Even then that's a lot of time and money and you still haven't begun to rig lighting and sound.

Again you go and start judging people you know nothing about and making untrue assumptions, how about you stop insulting people to try to prove you're so much better than the rest of us? Maybe I live in a bubble world, but it's called reality and I'm not the only one living there, if you'd open your eyes a little maybe you could join the rest of us there.

Ignoring my point because you don't have an argument against it doesn't give you any credibility. Yes buildings are expensive. What I said was that the cost of renovating a place like the good time would be high enough that (while in fact still cheaper than new) it would be a waste of the time and labor because for not too much more money(in the grand scheme of how much something like that would cost to do right) they could just build a new facility in it's place. If a new building costs $10 million, but a renovation to get it up to the same level would cost $9 million. There's a strong argument to be made that the extra million to have a brand new state of the art building is worth it, versus something that has been repurposed and could need another reno in 5 years to keep it up to par. 5 years down the line with a new building that started out fresh they'd still be functional and capable because the potential growth can be built into the new building, which is harder to do in a building that was built to be a movie theatre.

Josh old buddy, all I'm asking you is to actually read my post and apply something that ordinary people use everyday called common sense. We are both saying the same thing. It's not practical for the park to have a concert venue whether it be new or a revamped theatre. If you want to talk about throwing out wild assumptions; how about estimating the cost of a new venue without even knowing what the seating capacity would be, where it would be located or what features it would have for growth potential. Please back away from the XBox and try for a tan this summer.

YouCEdarMyPoint said:
Please back away from the XBox and try for a tan this summer.

Final warning. Lose the tone and be civil.

Hi there, I've been directly involved in not only renovating a theatre from the 70's but another from the 1920's. I manage and TD another 7 year old 300 seat theatre as well as a children's theatre company and also just followed the design/construction/and implementation of a multi million dollar state of the art theatre complex that includes an opera hall, blackbox, film studio, and classrooms. So I've got a pretty good handle on ballparking how much things cost depending on what you'd want in it. Given that I work 60 weeks most of the time teaching and tech directing all day with rehearsals at night, come home, eat and sleep, that doesn't leave much time for anything else. It's called being a working professional. Don't assume you know anything about me and when you've got something better than wild insults and poor spelling to strengthen your arguments, then maybe you'll make a logical and worthwhile point that people might listen to.

I hopeYouCEdarMyPoint realizes that a roof the size of Good Time Theater weighs a lot, and requires a lot of equipment to hold it up during construction.

Josh, the polite thing at this point would be to offer him some aloe vera.

At this point I'm not sure it would help the burn.

While they can't support a real concert venue, I'd love to see an expansion in Live E. I think realistically they are at about their limits though. (I'm not counting luminosity because it's like starlight in that it doesn't take a ton to run once it's all set up) Between the live talent and the technicians CP is a great way for people to get some experience under their belt and I've had a lot of friends cycle through their system. I'd love for them to be able to take on more people but for the size of the park they've already got a decent number of live shows.

It's surprising just how many people I've met across the country that did a season doing tech/acting either at Cedar Point or over at the Huron Playhouse. And usually the first 2 questions I hear are, "is Cedars still around?" followed by "how about the Red Garter?"

Josh, I won't give you my life story. If you really are as good as you say you are then you would be ashamed of yourself for your last post. If you walked into my office and told me you wanted 10 million to build a theatre but you had no idea how big it would be, what its main function would be or even where its location would be you would be laughed out of my office and any other legitimate business office in the world. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you had something visualized in your head as to what a new venue at the park would look like; but, I asked several times how big it should be and what it would be used for. No one gave any answers. As far as remodeling Good Time. Again, I'm sure you have something in your head but no specifics were given. I won't give a figure as to what it would cost because without details it's impossible for anyone to make a guess other than far far less than you guess. Since you work so much you may not have time to play video games; but, you still need to get some fresh air and a tan.

That's enough. You're done.