Contemplations of a 400ft "Top Hat"

Personally, I think that if Area 51 will be the site of a Rocket coaster, the ride will not exceed 300'. There's really no need to literally overshadow MF and Magnum this soon. I think the ride will be in the 250' range. I don't know the physics behind it, but I would think you would need a considerable amount of speed to clear an element of that size, surely a whole lot more than 100mph. A launch of 100mph would easily clear an obstacle of 250' or so.

That's my take on it. What do you think?

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Scott W. Short, Rail Junkie
mailto:scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com

It has been tested at 110 mph...something tells me that it will launch at this speed or a little higher. I'd love to see it be a 400 footer, but I'm beginning to think it will still be in the 300-400 foot range.

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June 28th: LocoBazooka Tour (Sevendust headlining)
July 11th: Korn, Puddle of Mudd, and Deadsy

Again I'll post people say why overshadow Millennium. I ask why not? Let's say 310'+ coaster is built at Cedar Point. That doesn't mean that MF is any smaller. It will still be the same ride. It would just have a bigger friend beside it. Why would Intiman test their hydraulic launch at over 110 mph (I've heard 117 mph) when they just needed it to reach 82mph? Were they seeing what it's capabilities were? I'm not going to set myself up for disappointment and say that if there is an Intiman Rocket Coaster coming to CP that it will be 400'+, but I'm truly thinking it will top 300'. I can't imagine a mix between Magnum's airtime, Millennium's height, and a more intense Wicked Twister launch. CP has two over 200', why not two over 300'?
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If you meet me and forget me, you've lost nothing. If you meet Jesus and forget Him, you've lost everything.

Physics is fun :o)

To find the speed needed to travel 400ft into the air we can use the following equation:

Vf = Vo + 2 * a * d

Vf = final speed (10mph we'll say)
Vo = initial speed (what we are looking for)
a = acceleration (-32ft/sec/sec for gravity)
d = distance traveled (400ft in this case)

so with converting to like terms we get...

14.6667feet/sec = _?_ + 2 * (-32ft/sec/sec) * 400feet

rearranging this we get...

_?_ = 14.6667 - 2 * (-32) * 400

and the answer comes out to (with converting back to miles/hour...

= 109.122mph

So if we throw in a few miles/hour for friction, we could say that 115mph should safely get you to the top of a 400ft hill with 10mph to spare.

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James Draeger
"Make it stop!"
"There goes the body buggy"

115 mph VERTICAL though ... you have to factor in a horizontal speed into that also. That track isn't going to be 400 feet of pure vertical, probably like 300 or even 275 vertical (just looking at Xcelerator pics) so I'd say closer to 120 or 125 would be needed to reach that top with a speed that would allow some airtime (which would be expected) and also not force problems with rollback (remember that a tower that high on a peninsula into a windy lake ... if it's aimed wrong, wind will factor a lot into the design of the ride as far as stalling out on that first hill)

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Steel - #1 Mantis, #2 Millie, #3 Wicked Twister
Wood - #1 Thunderbolt, #2 Villain, #3 Beast
"The key to a happy life is moderation" -- Jon Stewart

Personally, I wouldn't build anything bigger than MF. Also, I'm not a big fan of launched coasters, so I really hope a larger Xcelerator is not coming. I did not like WT at all. I hope to see a B&M flyer or a wooden terrain or the first Seizmic floorless.

Dont hold your breath...

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June 28th: LocoBazooka Tour (Sevendust headlining)
July 11th: Korn, Puddle of Mudd, and Deadsy

and the answer comes out to (with converting back to miles/hour...

= 109.122mph

So if we throw in a few miles/hour for friction, we could say that 115mph should safely get you to the top of a 400ft hill with 10mph to spare.

I'll assume your answer is correct since I am too lazy to figure it out, especially converting it from m/s to mph. However, you must add much more than 6mph for losses. Friction on a heavy train moving so fast and also wind resistance would require at least a 10mph addition, if not even more. I'd say to clear 400' safely, they should go to at least 120 mph, which I just do not think will happen. I really think that this ride could be a record breaker, but no 400 footer. Maybe 350'. That's my guess.

James is correct, I figured it out in the other thread and got the same answer (rounded it up to 110 though).

Needless to say, it would have to be one heck of a launch to get up to 400.

*Lets say this. Xcelerator goes what, 82MPH up tp 200 feet? Depending on the height of the launch run it should need around 74 MPH to get up. They added 8 MPH this.
*** This post was edited by Joe E. 7/22/2002 5:42:09 PM ***

Could it still be launching while going up the vertical part maintaining speed to a certain height to keep from launching at such an extreme speed? Someone is getting a 400ft coaster in the US, why not Cedar Point? I hear of no other parks that have footers so deep that they need six months to a year to cure.

That tera that Heide Park was making and canceled has nothing to do with an Xcelerator design...keep in mind that this coaster would have been in the works since right after/during MF's construction. I thought about it still launching while vertical, but with the current design, that's not possible.

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June 28th: LocoBazooka Tour (Sevendust headlining)
July 11th: Korn, Puddle of Mudd, and Deadsy

Maybe it won't be tall - maybe it will be fast... *hint* *hint*

Sorry, but everyone is getting a little out of proportion. Let's get a little more realistic. Don't make me pull out my physics book ;)

I did a simulation in No Limits where I added LIMs to the vertical track to help it along. This reduces the top speed required from the launch. Putting LIMs on the vertical track worked very well, I don't see why it couldn't work in real life. They do it on certain Impulse coasters to hold the train in place, they can use the same technology to give the train an added boost to get it over the top.

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It's very hard to drink all day...
Unless you start first thing in the morning.

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Joe E. said:
James is correct, I figured it out in the other thread and got the same answer (rounded it up to 110 though).

Needless to say, it would have to be one heck of a launch to get up to 400.

*Lets say this. Xcelerator goes what, 82MPH up tp 200 feet? Depending on the height of the launch run it should need around 74 MPH to get up. They added 8 MPH this.

Yeah but it has considerably less track to travel than the rumored 400 footer. If it was 400', it would have twice the track to travel to get to the top. This means approximately twice the losses. I worked it out too, and I got 107 MPH. The difference is probably due to what we figured in as the speed at the top or height of launch track. Seriously, if this is an enlarged version of Xcelerator, the losses will be a lot. I still say 120 MPH would be almost the minimum. I just don't see it happening. We were shocked with MF and the speed, but that is not launched. I can't even begin to imagine the jerk involved on a 120 MPH launch.

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Ok, first of all I just want to say that I really don't know exactly how the hydraulic launch works. I've got an idea, but I'm not an expert. The train is attached to a cable that pulls the train when a spool spins rapidly due to hydraulic fluid being pressurized and released into a new chamber. Well a the train is being pulled by a cable to use the power from the pressure right? So, if this is the case, the cable could continue to pull the train up part of the vertical section to maintain speed. You would just have to guide the cable correct? Millennium's cable is guided why couldn't a hydraulic launched coaster's cable be guided up part of the vertical incline and then turn off? Is this reasonable, or am I really off base and stupid?

And yes, I agree that the LIMs would work as well, they use them on Mr. Freeze to push it further up its spike.

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If you meet me and forget me, you've lost nothing. If you meet Jesus and forget Him, you've lost everything.
*** This post was edited by forcedude04 7/22/2002 11:00:45 PM ***

I think that the curve to vertical as such an intense speed could be detrimental to the cable. I doubt we will see a vertical launch area on CP's coaster...not to say that it won't happen, but I'm not expecting it.

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June 28th: LocoBazooka Tour (Sevendust headlining)
July 11th: Korn, Puddle of Mudd, and Deadsy

I don't like launches either.

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BTS Cedar Point
http://www.cedarpoint.tk

your wrong ShiveringTimb. It will be over 400 ft high.

Brett1019...stop flooding the threads about what we've already heard over and over again...being a newbie...you should try to create very little noise.

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June 28th: LocoBazooka Tour (Sevendust headlining)
July 11th: Korn, Puddle of Mudd, and Deadsy

No kidding...

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Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP, Sillynonsense.com
"Let's stop saying 'don't quote me,' because if no one quotes you, you probably haven't said a thing worth saying." - Dogma, KMFDM