Coaster Additions/Changes and General Park Ride Structure

Ah, so it's "bad" to want to remove rides I think are a waste of space (as families supposedly love them or something), but when it comes to one YOU don't like (Disaster Transport), TEAR IT DOWN and put a ride you'd prefer there. For the record, I prefer Disaster Transport over Iron Dragon, Wildcat, or the Mine Ride. At least it's pleasant ride, even if it's not very thrilling and not nearly long enough (whereas Iron Dragon is just a slow suspended train ride and Mine Ride is uncomfortable to ride).

In any case, I'm not against lesser "thrill" coasters that are more appropriate for younger riders, etc., but I just don't think Mine Ride and Iron Dragon are fun period. Compare that to Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, which IS fun, despite not being a thrill machine. In fact, I think I suggested that what CP needs in those areas are reworked rides. The Mine Ride is not well themed and is too jerky. They could build a new one and do it right and it would be 10x better (about how much better I like Big Thunder Mountain Railroad). Likewise, there is no reason Iron Dragon needed to have more than one lift hill. It's a bad design and doesn't even get beyond the CP Railway in terms of any excitement what-so-ever until the very end of the ride, where at least it swings a bit. I mean if they're going to have such slow coasters, why not theme (better than Disaster Transport) and call it a dark ride instead? I love dark rides (and Disney World in general). There is more to life than JUST roller coasters (CP seems obsessed with that one area; if you don't like roller coasters, CP is not the park you want to go to. You'd be better off going to Knoebels or something instead.

I didn't even like Jr. Gemini when I was 5 years old (the kiddie coaster at Idora park was way better). Now I'm not saying Jr. Gemini doesn't have its place at CP. I just consider it a kiddie ride (like those kind that go in circles), not a roller coaster. I can't believe CP has the nerve to count it (I'm sure its just to maintain their claim of most coasters). If an adult isn't allowed on the coaster (without a kid), it's not a roller coaster, IMO. It's a kiddie attraction (that just happens to use rails instead of tires on a circular track or whatever). I personally think their claim of 16 coasters is misleading. An adult can only ride 15 of them. *** Edited 8/4/2004 3:16:03 PM UTC by PacDude***

Wow, I just don't know what to say to the above display of outstanding logic.

Using your theory, then, Cedar Point only has 51 rides ... since there are 16 rides in which you must be under 54" to ride. And adults *can* ride Jr. Gemini when they're with a child under 54". A coaster is a coaster ... why exclude the kiddie coasters? Or are we only counting "cool" coasters? If Jr. Gemini moved a little faster or had a higher lift hill, would it be a coaster?

Big Thunder Mountain cost $17 million .... 25 years ago. That's a lot of money. The attractions at places like Disney and Universal are big and exciting, but that kind of theming also comes with a big price tag.

No-Offense PacDude but I think your just Ignorant.. And you dont understand that Cedar Point Is more than your average Amusement Park.. its the one that has won the golden ticket award 6 times in a row among various other awards and it is the second oldest park in the country..From now on I beleive Cedar Point It going to preserve all the currwnt coasters as they are now because every ride is an instant classic.. The whole park wouldnt be the same if they did even one of the things you suggested.

Personally I dont think there is one ride that I dont like at the point.. sure evry ride has its ups and downs but thats because Cedar Point has a "family" of Coasters all the coasters exceed in a certain area and you need to enjoy them for that area they excel in.

P.S. I think Mean Streak Rules It has moe airtime then any coaster in the park including magnum.. if you could stopwatch the airtime on that ride compared to magnums it would win.

Here's my standard reply that I must bring out often in various threads.

Coaster geeks with season passes that show up to ride the big ones don't make Cedar Fair as much money as families full of screaming kids demanding drinks, souvenirs, etc. who stay at the Breakers for three nights, do. You have to have rides for younger people to ride, that younger people find exciting.

I remember when I first got my wife on the Iron Dragon, she was screaming and scared to death. Next year she rode the Corkscrew before I would go on it and now she rides MF and Magnum.

I watched my kids and nephews and nieces go from Kiddyland to 46" to 48" to go ride yourself I'm going to stay at the Surf Lounge (don't get me started on that one) and drink stage. The park needs those smaller coasters.

Mean Streak has "moe" airtime than any coaster in the park? Just what do you call airtime, NexGen89?

MrScott

"Moe" airtime as in Moe from the three stooges: it slaps you upside the head.

LMAO, I thought it would poke you in the eye;)

-Eagle-

BRING BACK THE ROTOR! Either at CP or Geauga Lake. I love that more than some coasters.

No offense NextGen89, but what you say doesn't make any sense to me. Mean Streak with air-time? Does that mean it hits you with the best breeze off of Lake Erie or what?

EVERY coaster is an instant classic? Yeah, Wicked Twister is both original and a classic! It seemed SO familiar for some reason the last time I rode it.... And to think I never thought CP would actually emulate Geauga Lake while Six Flags still owned it (I thought it was bad enough when GL installed a Demon Drop clone over a decade after CP got theirs and thought the public would be impressed....).

Hey guys, by that logic, any time SFMM threatens to overtake CP's number of coaster record, all CP has to do is build a half dozen more kiddie coasters that look like flat rides and take back their record for less $1 million. Imagine these fabulous "coaster" additions:

Little Magnum
Low Thrill Dragster
Junior Disaster
Itty Bitty Mean Streak
Dragging Iron Jr.

and finally the classic to end all classic coasters at CP:

The Brown Streak

They can all look like Dodgem rides and CP can call them coasters and you will all applaud for CP having so many coasters and being the AMAZEMENT Park. :) *** Edited 8/5/2004 5:43:06 PM UTC by PacDude***

Any park could build a bunch of kiddie coasters if all that mattered were the numbers. Do you think Cedar Point is the only amusement park on the planet that counts kiddie coasters in their official count?

If you think we're Cedar Point fans because they have the most coasters, then I can honestly say that you don't get it. Cedar Point is bigger than any coaster and bigger than any record.

Records might be nice to add to the marketing, but it takes a lot more than a few statistics to drive people to the park and bring them back. If you're under the impression that Cedar Point wins "Best Park" every year because of a few records, then you need to spend some more time at the park to truly understand what it's all about.

No, it's YOU that don't understand what I'm saying. I'm saying that Cedar Point is placing too much emphasis on that coaster record number and that counting coasters that aren't really coasters seems to be a theme these days just to inflate that number. It's certainly not why I have been going there since I was a kid, thank you very much. In all, it's just a meaningless number since it says NOTHING about the QUALITY of the coasters involved. My point is they could be all kiddie coasters and win the world record. There is apparently no qualifying criteria involved and thus I think it's a lousy record to go by in the first place.

I would prefer CP concentrate on making a better overall park experience in the future instead of turning CP into just a giant "nothing but" coasters park (it's starting to look like a big jungle gym as it is; I don't care for what TTD did to the CP skyline, personally) just to keep some silly record. I mean that's almost all we ever hear about anymore is "What is CP's NEXT coaster?" I'd rather hear ,"What's CP's next flat, dark, or water ride?" The problem is the park itself seems to have the very same mentality and so we won't likely see something like a dark ride any time soon, which is a shame since they don't have ANY right now. "16" coasters and no dark rides (unless you count Disaster Transport as a dark ride instead of a coaster). I just personally think they should consider roudning their park out better. I love coasters, but I do like other types of rides also. And not EVERYONE on this planet loves coasters. More other types of rides would give them more to do as well.

If you don't share any of those opinions, fine. You don't have to. I'm just giving my opinion. I'd rather see a poorly rated coaster (like Iron Dragon or Mean Streak) removed/replaced before adding more coasters, but that won't help that precious record so it won't be done. That's one of my other points. People are wondering if they're going to have to start using up parking space or removing more non-coaster rides to fit MORE coasters and I personally think that's dumb when there's some perfectly boring coasters they could replace without sacrificing other rides like White Water Landing in the process.

*** Edited 8/5/2004 7:41:33 PM UTC by PacDude***

The park is hardly "coasters only" park. 8 of the last 14 years have been non-coaster years with a variety of improvements. It seems that you're the only placing too much emphasis on records. Like I said, having a record makes a nice marking slogan for commercials, but it has little to do with why 3.5 million people visit each summer.

If you don't believe me, how about listening to what Dick Kinzel had to say in an interview (emphasis mine):

"All of the capital we do has to show a good return on investment. We feel that you have to put in the capital dollars to keep people coming back year after year, but we have to justify it with either increased guest attendance or with increased per capita spending. A lot of people think we put the rides in because of ego, to say we’re the biggest and the best, but that’s not really the truth. The truth is they’re good business decisions to put those rides in, and the timing has to be right. Notice we don’t put the world’s largest or biggest rides in the smaller parks because we’re very careful about our strategic planning as to where we place our rides and how our capital dollars are spent."

*** Edited 8/5/2004 8:04:58 PM UTC by Walt***

Pacdude-

Does it seem to you that Cedar Point is building a massive amount of kiddie coasters just to keep a record? Is two kiddie coaters in over 20 years is overwhelming? And if you think that Cedar Point has more than two kiddie coasters, than you're crazy. At one point ever coaster's history, it has had a full queue. I remember waiting for over an hour for you're so called, "Dragging Iron". The same thing goes for CCMR, DT, or any other coaster in the entire park.

Are you saying that if a coaster is outdated, than it shouldn't be counted as a coaster. Is Bluestreak not a coaster? If not, than Coney Island's Cyclone should be counted as negative one coaster.

Less than 1/4 of Cedar Point's rides are coasters... is that too many... a bad thing?

Nicely said Topthrill420.

I personally love riding most of the rides that some are saying we need to tear down. I'm 20 so I have grown up at CP when most of the rides were being built. I love riding Mean Streak because i remember being one of the first to ride it when it first came out. I dont find it any more painful than a ride on Gemini (its getting pretty rough now days). I love riding DT, dont know why, its just fun to me. Iron Dragon is a nice ride to just relax on and take a break from the masses. I am a total coaster finatic and was one of the first to ride TTD last year, but I also love riding the older coasters because it kinda takes you back in time a bit to when things were simpler.

IMO, I think this coaster record debate is a bit outdated. Besides, CP is a THRILL park and never was, and never will be a Disney type THEME park.

If you have no appreciation or respect for the history of parks and coasters then in my opinion you are not an enthusiast.

PacDude's comments don't faze me in the least because it is obvious he is uneducated about the business.

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"Does it seem to you that Cedar Point is building a massive amount of kiddie coasters just to keep a record?"
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No, I NEVER IMPLIED *ANY* SUCH THING. I suggest that next time you actually **READ** what I wrote and learn what SARCASM and humor are (geeze, I thought the "Brown Streak" one alone was hilarious). Man, I can't believe that I'm reading this let alone seeing someone say, "Well said" to it.

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And if you think that Cedar Point has more than two kiddie coasters, than you're crazy
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Where the heck did I *EVER* say any such thing? Do you people just sit there and make stuff up and then counter the stuff you made up and then pat each other on the back afterwards or what? Give me a break already.

I make some remarks about how I think CP is overemphasizing roller coasters at the expense of other rides like dark rides (there are now zero since CP removed The Pirate Ride a few years back) and I get lectures about how every coaster once filled the queues. No kidding. That's before we figured out they were crappy. You have to ride The Mean Streak (or Iron Dragon) at least once to form an opinion about it and thus it had big lines the first year. It didn't have big lines long after that and was a virtual ghost town the last few times I've been to CP (odd for such a big coaster) whereas coasters like Magnum have had fairly large lines CONSISTENTLY all these years and that's because for most people, Magnum rocks.

BTW, Gemini is NOT getting rough like Mean Streak.... do you guys even ride some of these rides before you makes comments like that? I was just there 2 weeks ago and it was the same as it always has been, much smoother than any wooden coaster and a lot of fun.

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PacDude's comments don't faze me in the least because it is obvious he is uneducated about the business.
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Yeah, I'm sure Mean Streak just PULLS those guests in these days. And I suppose CP has zero dark rides because they don't pull people in? I'm glad Walt Disney World doesn't think that way. They are the polar opposite of Cedar Point. They have 2 coasters (3 if you count the kiddie coaster) in the Magic Kingdom and neither are particularly large or thrilling. They are fun, but don't compare to CP's best. So just how is it Disney manages to keep people's interest when the majority of their rides are dark rides? It's not just a family or kid's park. I still love going there (more so than CP even). If my opinions are SO FAR off the beaten track and I'm so "uneduated" then explain how Disney's parks stay in business? You don't have to be a coaster fan or a thrill seeking fan to enjoy a good quality dark ride (people of ALL ages and groups can enjoy them) and yet they represent some of the most popular rides on the planet from Pirates of the Caribbean at WDW to Spiderman at IOA. Now I suppose you're going to tell me that those rides don't attract guests and so someone like CP can't justify spending money on them? Give me a break.

I'm pointing out weak areas at CP and ways they could improve the overall general experience and everyone else is just saying "more coasters!" and that's because this is a coaster message board. It does not represent the entire general public's viewpoints. And yet it's 'my' comments are that 'uneducated.' Right. The very fact some of you are acting like I'm here to bash CP or something shows just how far off the beaten path you are. I love Cedar Point for the most part. I'd just like to see it be better yet. Having a record for best amusement park doesn't mean that park is perfect or well-rounded. The fact I have to travel all the way to Florida to ride quality dark rides (at the most popular park on the planet) shows you just how many parks are dismissing such things out of hand.

CP will spent $30 million on a coaster, but how much would they spend on a dark ride? You get what you pay for. A dark ride of Spiderman's caliber at IOA would attract as many people as a coaster would and probably sustain it much longer. It would also attract more types of guest than just thrill seekers. If Cedar Fair wants to turn Geuaga Lake into a family park, they'd do well to have some true family style attractions there. Pirates 4D is about as close as they get right now with the animals gone.