Coaster Additions/Changes and General Park Ride Structure

I originally started posting this as a reply to some of the comments in the Demon Drop relocation thread, but I realized it was getting way too far off-topic (so are some other posts there, IMO), so I thought I'd just start a new thread.

I think instead of BIGGER all the time, CP should be thinking CLASSIC and recreate a poplar old wooden coaster from the past that's now gone (e.g. Wildcat from Idora). There's something to be said for famous coasters (famous because they're fun), not just record breaking ones. Mean Streak, Son of Beast, they're both failures because they're too painful to ride or enjoy. Ride Mean Streak and then go ride Blue Streak. Blue Streak wins hands down. For me, it's almost as fun as Gemini (they need to do something about those squeaking axels, though! Egad they're bad this year!) Wooden coasters don't need to be big to be fun. In fact, unless it's a straight Out & Back (like Shivering Timbers), big probably won't work out, especailly if they use those horrible trains that Geuaga Lake now uses on both The Villain and Raging Wolf Bobs (I used to like RWB; it wasn't GREAT, but it was OK. Now it's AWFUL with those leg beating, no cushion trains. What are those called? Gerstauler trains? Awful. No one should use them. Villain would be 3x more fun with better trains, IMO. I take a leg beating on those metal retraint poles that sit on both sides of your legs every time. CP would do well to NEVER use such train, IMO.

Meanwhile, I know CP likes to build MORE coasters, not replace coasters, but IMO they're doing themselves a disservice that way. Several coasters there just plain SUCK compared to similar desings at other parks. Just look at Dragging Iron! I mean there's as reason people call it that (although with that new paint job, I think it looks more like a Chi Chi's Mexican restaurant! :) I started calling it Chi-Chi-Mon when I was there.) Both Top Gun and Big Bad Wolf blow it away in terms of sheer fun.

Then there's the Mine Ride. Blech. They should look at Walt Disney World's Big Thunder Mountain Railroad for an idea how to build a nicely themed, FUN mine/train type ride. I mean the theming is almost non-existent there.

Mean Streak = Nice looking, yet AWFUL ride. It should go. You could probably fit at least two normal sized wooden coasters there.

Disaster Transport isn't so much "bad" as it is WAY too short, IMO. Still, I think it does well in terms of people riding it simply because people like to walk through an air-conditioned line. I know I do. That's the best part. :) I see fairly long lines even though the ride doesn't deserve them. The least they could do is make the walk through the line more entertaining. I'd prefer that to just ripping it out, personally.

I personally think they should get rid of Junior Gemini or at least stop pretending they can count it as a roller coaster. It's BEYOND a "kiddie coaster". It's more like a baby coaster. I wouldn't even call it a coaster. I'd call it a train with a slight dip. :) Yes, I rode it as a kid. No, I don't count it as a coaster on my list of coasters ridden. Ghoster Coaster at KD or even Idora'a old kiddie coaster were more of a coaster than Gemini Jr., IMO. But I know it helps CP maintain their coaster record (even though IMO it shouldn't).

I think Corkscrew is too cool the way it goes over the midway, but I do think it would benefit from retracking and/or new trains or something. The ride has gotten much jerkier and uncomfotable to ride over the years, IMO. It might not even be a bad idea to reinvent the coaster by adding new elements, etc. (hey they converted Steel Phantom at Kennywood), but keeping the corkscrew over the midway.

Meanwhile, what I miss most at CP is ANY kind of DARK ride (and no Disaster Transport doesn't count). After they tore down the pirate ride, they have none left. I know they've got it in their minds that themeing doesn't work at CP (like Disaster Transport should be the only indicator; it sure works for other parks like Disney), but I personally would like to be able to go on a dark ride or two during the day. It'd be a nice shift from just roller coasters. I mean they're kind of overdoing the rollercoaster thing. I'd like some other rides (Power Tower is one of the few non-water / non-coaster rides I still like to ride there). I even miss things like the old double ferris wheel (and with Power Tower at CP now and Geauga Lake having Mr. Hide, I think Demon Drop is kind of redundant and could just go period; bring back the double ferris wheel even!)

What I miss from Geauga Lake and what I think Cedar Fair should bring back (especially if they're not going to do animal shows there in the future), are some of their old flat rides (CP used to have them too long before my time). I'm talking about things like The Rotor. Man, I LOVE that ride. I hated when Six Flags took it out. Likewise, I really miss that old Zeppelin/Rocket type swing they had there. I used to ride a similar one when I was a kid at the old Idora Park so it always brought back memories. I remember some other cool flat rides like The Caterpillar. You just don't see too many of those classics anymore. If CP (or Geuaga Lake) was ever going to do a boardwalk area/theme, it would be cool to put old classic type rides (or recreations of those rides) in that area along with a classic wooden coaster.

I also know that I tend to somtimes avoid Thunder Canyon because there is almost no chance of riding it and not getting soaked to the bone. I mean getting wet is fine, but it can be pretty miserable when your shoes and underwear are just drenched. Adding insult to injury, the water on those rides (being from Lake Erie) just plain SMELLS. I think it was a really bad idea to cheap out and use lake water on those rides. I don't like smelling lake water on my clothes the rest of the day. I know I'd like their water rides better if they switched the water to clean water and redid Thunder Canyon's waterfalls so you at least have a sporting chance. I wanted to ride it when I was there two weeks ago, but it wasn't that warm out, the sun wasn't out and I just didn't feel like getting drenched. One cool thing Animal Kingdom at Disney World has on their rapid ride is a little covered container in the center of the raft where you can put your shoes & socks so at least you don't have to "squish" around all day long after riding it. I liked that feature a lot. CP would do good to add that.

Overall, I'm just afraid Cedar Point is overlooking other ride options and themes that would make the overall day there much more enjoyable than just constantly adding more roller coasters.

What do you think?

Yeah, I see your point. Something Cedar Point could use is The Beast from Paramounts Kings Island. It is a legend in wooden rollercoaster history. Instead of trying to go higher and higher, they need to try and make the longest roller-coaster, or maybe have one with the most inversions? *** Edited 8/2/2004 7:05:57 PM UTC by Huggy Bear***

There will never be another Beast. It is a terrain coaster and Cedar Point doesn't have any terrain.

That and I doubt you'll ever see another wood coaster unless it's fairly small with a steel structure. I'm sure it's company policy to never have another Mean Streak or Hercules.

Why are some so quick to want to dump a coaster if they happen to think it's boring? I'm almost as tired of hearing that as I am of reading the annual "there's nothing in Sandusky except CP" thread.

I'm equally as tired of hearing people complaining that "CP shouldn't have done this or CP should have done this..."

One thing did the pirate ride go under ground

You can't add on to Corkscrew, it's a classic coaster, adding on to it would only ruin that. Thunder Canyon is there for one purpose only....to get you SOAKED, same thing with Snake River Falls. If you want to ride a water ride and not get totally soaked go ride White Water Landing.

I do agree with you about adding some new flat rides though, that is one area where Cedar Point is lacking.

PacDude, you're a long ways from the VPforums... lol.

Yeah, I also believe adding some flat rides would be real cool. I know people say this all the time, but an old fashioned boardwalk with classic rides would be great. I know it would add a ton of character to CP and I would love to see it happen. As for Thunder Canyon, I see what you mean about getting extremely soaked on it. I find it amusing that everytime I go on I hit every waterfall possible while some strangers around me hit one or two! I think it's a great ride for those hot-muggy summer days.

-Eagle-

Most of the coasters you mention removing are great starter coasters or intermediate coasters. Granted, Junior Geminii doesn't do ,much, but have you ever seen Top Cat's Taxi Jam at PKI? It doesn't do much either. But, for real small children, these are good starter coasters. TC's Taxi Jam was my neice's first coaster and she was pretty scared to ride it, but she had fun anyway. Personally (and I'm probably in the minority here) I like the Cedar Creek Mine Ride. It is a good coaster to slow down on when you've been going 92 to 120 mph. This is a good intermediate coaster like Disaster Transport. I really don't car much for DT, but it does give people a break from the heat and is not extremely intense (good for those people not ready for MF or TTD or WT),

I don't know why nobody likes the mean streak. I think it is a great ride yes I will agree that it is not the funnest ride in the park or thye smoothest but it is still a fun ride. Also the mine ride is a great ride it is not my favorite but its a fun small coaster.

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Cory Marshall

My son has spent the entire season wanting to ride precisely one thing on every trip we've taken: Jr. Gemini. It's a step up from the Motorcycles, which were his absolute favorite ride last season.

My pre-teen nephew, who had never been inside an amusement park before a several day trip with us this summer, was not at all ready for much beyond CCMR, but enjoyed that quite a bit. Just enough speed to give him a thrill, but not unduly threatening. He could have watched Dragster launch all day long, but no way in hades was he going to get on it.

My 46" but not 48" daughter would ride every coaster in the park if the ops would let her. But, they don't, so she power-rides Disaster Dragon for as long as we'll ride with her.

My wife is slowly catching my gravity disease, and now sneaks rides on Magnum when the line is short and we're walking by. She claims she won't ride Millennium, but I suspect that's only a matter of time. It might be much harder to get her on Dragster, since she isn't overly fond of first drops, and that's all that ride is.

I am, of course, certifiably crazy when it comes to dropping, spinning, and flipping.

Everyone loved Soak City. A lot.

I suspect our little band of five is pretty representative of many families who take multi-day visits, complete with a 3-night lighthouse point stay. We kept busy, so there isn't anything the parks *need* to add. But, from our perspective, the more attractions there are that *all* of us can do together, the better.

Let's just level off the entire park and build one huge monster thrill ride.

I personally love he idea of Cedar Point bringing back some older flat rides. Like a Zipper or a Rotor, or better yet, BOTH of these things.

I think Cedar Point is kinda lacking in the flat-rides department. During a trip to Paramount's King's Island, I enjoyed multiple trips on both Delerium and Tomb Raider: The Ride.

A Giant Huss or two would fit in perfectly at Cedar Point.

Pirate ride did not go underground. What made you think that CP4life23?

I do know Thunder Canyon's water comes from Lake Eerie, but I dont think the water for WWL or SRF comes from the lake.

Definitely, a dark ride would be a great addition. Exterminator at Kennywood is fun and different.

Installing a replica/duplicate of classic coasters would be cool, too--any John Miller design. As Jeff suggested, you could use steel, and a Miller coaster would definitely be "smaller" by contemporary building standards. (JackRabbit and Racer at Kennywood; Miller also designed the original part of Kennywood's Thunderbolt, plus Big Dipper at Geauga Lake.)

There is a brand new product that just came on the market called- 'Create your own Point'. This state-of-the-art, ground-breaking product allows you to customize the park known as "Cedar Point" anyway you want. "I'm not a kid anymore", then why in the world would Jr. Gemini exist? "Iron Dragon, more like Dragging Iron!". Demolish it and build that B&M Flyer you've always wanted. "TTD breaks down too much.", then fix the thing yourself!

New theming to Disaster Transport, Corkscrew in middle of the lake, no need for such a big parking lot, the sky's the limit! Oh what the hell, demolish everything and build a 600 foot, 17 inversion B&Inti'em' flyer/impulse/6D/floorless/sub-sonic/mega coaster!

On shelves Today! Hurry!

Looks like a lot of us could use this top-of-the-line product. (Me included)

A couple of posts already reflected my thoughts, but I have to say that I really get tired of the idea that because a ride is old or not the biggest or most thrilling, it should be dumped. Rides like Mine Ride and Iron Dragon are great coasters for those who are not sure they can take things like MF or TTD or even Raptor. I've been riding them since I was tall enough to get on and have always enjoyed them.

Tearing down some of these coasters would provide little room (not that its needed anyway). One thing you have to keep reminding yourselves is that CP makes money from families. Families that stay in the hotels and buy lots of food. These families won't come if the rides (including the rollercoasters) are not family friendly.

I must admit though, I think Disaster Transport was a big mistake and I wish they could do something with the ride. If I had any input, I would probably like to see a smaller GCI where it stands and move the ride itself (without the theming) to GL or one of the other parks (rethemed to a bobsled run). Mostly because its kind of an eysore blocking the view of lake and because of its rediculously slow lines.