Chick-fil-A Ban

I think you pose a good question, Walt.

In addition to being a lifelong fan, I've worked my tail off the past few years to form a good working relationship with the park and the people there for the Mount Union students. Needless to say, I have a lot invested in Cedar Point beyond just being a place I like to take my family, it's now connected to my work as well.

I can only speak for myself, but what I would do is work to change the park in a positive way instead of "toss the baby out with the bath water", so to speak. I feel like in a small way, I've been welcomed into the CP family, and I would not just throw that away.

That said, I will also not stay quiet. Does that make sense?

Westbrady18 said:
I do not see why people are making this a big deal. Yeah they blew their mouth off, but they have the right to their views. I'm 100% for gay rights, but I wouldn't boycott a company. Think of it this way.. The CEO ran his mouth but he is already loaded, so in reality boycotting this company will in the long term really only hurt and put a lot of people out of work. So have your opinions, and if you're that offended then don't eat there but don't try to start a complete nationwide boycott.

If you were 100% for gay rights, you wouldn't be eating there. As Dragsterwiz and many others have already pointed out, Chick-fil-A has donated many times to anti-gay organizations. By eating there, you'll just be fueling those anti-gay organizations.

Renegade said:
Why would anyone think that? Cedar Fair is a different company. Personally I don't even walk* into a Chick-Fil-A and think that.

*I don't walk into the place at all. Don't think I've ever been to one, but this has nothing to do with any beliefs.

I understand that they're different companies, but people can easily assume that by allowing Chick-fil-A into the park, that Cedar Fair also agrees with the message.

I think at some point you need to draw a line. If you looked at all the businesses doing business with other business and then found all the 'bad companies' that are run by someone they disagree with or dislike their policies or dislike who they give money to, I think most people would find that somewhere down the line every company they use does something heinous.

Entertainment companies tried to make it legal for them to basically hack your computers and then lobbied to pass the SOPA bill. Car companies took billions of dollars in bailouts. BP dumped billions of gallons of oil into the gulf. I guess Chick Fil A is convenient to have a stand and 'cause' against because you can eat other places without much discomfort.

I'd think no less of Cedar Point if they keep Chick Fil A. I'd actually probably think less of them if they gave into this stupid pressure and got rid of it to be honest.

You do have to draw a line. Chick-Fil-A has made its views clear. Cedar Fair has made its opposing views clear. You can visit a Cedar Fair park without eating at Chick-Fil-A. If customers don't eat at CFA, Cedar Fair would end that contract, as they seek profitability.

That being said, there are plenty of other companies that'd likely be just as profitable with much less controversy. So, I'd be happy if Cedar Fair gave them the boot.

Having not read every single little scrap here I will point out that I'm pretty sure they serve pork which, having a cloven hoof, is unclean according to the same section of the bible. So they essentially pick and choose which parts to follow (like most catholics... speaking as one). Pork? good for business, gays? heinous. apparently.

I also had shake my head a bit about their approach to the Muppets pulling their suppor (and there for toys). Instead of just saying unfortunately they don't see eye to eye, they tried to cover up the pull out by saying they "chic" won't be giving out any more muppet toys do to a safety concern. Which was essentially kids getting their fingers stuck in finger puppets.

Just an FYI, the Cathy family are Southern Baptists, not Catholic.

Nickster said:

Westbrady18 said:
I do not see why people are making this a big deal. Yeah they blew their mouth off, but they have the right to their views. I'm 100% for gay rights, but I wouldn't boycott a company. Think of it this way.. The CEO ran his mouth but he is already loaded, so in reality boycotting this company will in the long term really only hurt and put a lot of people out of work. So have your opinions, and if you're that offended then don't eat there but don't try to start a complete nationwide boycott.

If you were 100% for gay rights, you wouldn't be eating there. As Dragsterwiz and many others have already pointed out, Chick-fil-A has donated many times to anti-gay organizations. By eating there, you'll just be fueling those anti-gay organizations.

Renegade said:
Why would anyone think that? Cedar Fair is a different company. Personally I don't even walk* into a Chick-Fil-A and think that.

*I don't walk into the place at all. Don't think I've ever been to one, but this has nothing to do with any beliefs.

I understand that they're different companies, but people can easily assume that by allowing Chick-fil-A into the park, that Cedar Fair also agrees with the message.

Seriously, go look on CP's twitter. They said that, "All opinions of Chick fil A are independent from those of Cedar Point. It is just 1 of many franchise restaurants at the park."

bholcomb said:
Doubtful. Take a trip south. I think the opposite is true - if they came out promoting gay marriage they'd die as a business.

That's true. However, population density in the US is such that the South is the minority. Secondly, history has taught us that over time, bigotry and intolerance loses out to civil rights. So, you're probably correct that CFA will exist for quite some time in the South, but that doesn't mean they won't eventually be run out of areas where people dun got some skoolin'.

Walt said:
Is there a point at which Cedar Point becomes culpable? If a person is judged for continuing to patronize CFA, what about a company who continues to do business with them?

Interesting point. Reflexively, I'd like to believe that CP should be held culpable. But giving money to CP doesn't give money to CFA. Just as shopping at a Victoria's Secret in a mall that houses a CFA doesn't give money to CFA.

So, while I'd prefer CFA to not be able to find a venue anywhere, they're not doing anything illegal (yet), and if the free market dictates that people in a certain area care more about chicken than they do about civil rights, then so be it.

But it's important that people know what CFA is doing, and why it's immoral, so that potential customers understand that their money is being used to oppress a segment of the population.

TTD 120mph said:

Like I've said before, I will not stop eating delicious Chic Fil A just because of this reason.

If you said it once, then why say it again? Nobody's forcing you to stop going there. No more than what you say will stop people who support civil rights from voicing their disgust at what the CEO said.

Is repeating the same thing that annoying to you? Because everybody seems to be throwing out their opinions on here and it's basically a big repeat to me too. In any way, shape, or form does it look like I'm trying to force you to stop believing in what you believe in? I'm joining in the discussion too, just as much as the next person TTD120mph.

With that said, I look at it this way: It's not that someone is pro something when it's convenient for them, it's just that when you see homosexual employees working at Chic Fil A (whether it be in the park or in an outside franchise restaurant), you can't help but to see the contradiction there. We can't just sit here and think "they're gay, but as long as they have a job, they don't care if they work for a bigot. They're just gonna be gay when it's convenient for them." I mean, come on. I'm probably coming off like I'm some kind of bigot myself, but I actually support gay rights! But the community is going to have to do A LOT more than boycott a restaurant, because they're against what we believe in.

bholcomb said:
I think at some point you need to draw a line. If you looked at all the businesses doing business with other business and then found all the 'bad companies' that are run by someone they disagree with or dislike their policies or dislike who they give money to, I think most people would find that somewhere down the line every company they use does something heinous.

Entertainment companies tried to make it legal for them to basically hack your computers and then lobbied to pass the SOPA bill. Car companies took billions of dollars in bailouts. BP dumped billions of gallons of oil into the gulf. I guess Chick Fil A is convenient to have a stand and 'cause' against because you can eat other places without much discomfort.

I'd think no less of Cedar Point if they keep Chick Fil A. I'd actually probably think less of them if they gave into this stupid pressure and got rid of it to be honest.

Glad you brought up SOPA it didn't pass, and why? because the country stood up as a whole and said we won't accept this. We have power, This is it. Things like this forum, Facebook, YouTube, have the power to change the world! all it takes is getting people behind a cause, if there are enough to support it you will see change. The digital age has created a new "couch lobbyist" you can sit at home and update your status or tweet your congressman, or Cedar Point. This is our time to shine, This is our chance to stand up for what is right, there is no excuse anymore.

TwistedWicker77 said:Is repeating the same thing that annoying to you? Because everybody seems to be throwing out their opinions on here and it's basically a big repeat to me too. In any way, shape, or form does it look like I'm trying to force you to stop believing in what you believe in? I'm joining in the discussion too, just as much as the next person TTD120mph.

Yes, it is......but that's my own fault for continuing to take part in this discussion.:)

I'm not going to lie, my temper was short that day. Your comment just got the brunt of it after all the seemingly endless repetition of repeated opinion (from both sides). I wasn't trying to trash your opinions and I never intend to.

Rihard 2000 said:
Mrs. Knott's Chicken Dinner please. :)

I am glad someone said this, it is puzzling that all these years Cedar Fair never expanded on Knott's famous chicken dinner into all of their parks. If you were going to have a chicken-focused food service outlet, shouldn't it be the one you already own and build on that brand recognition that can't be found anywhere else versus going with a competitor?!?

As for the rest of the debate, as a gay man it doesn't really bother me that there is a Chick-Fil-A in the parks. I won't make a purchase there but if someone else chooses too so be it. What I care more about is the fact I don't believe Cedar Fair has HR policies that recognize the contributions of their LGBT employees. Do they offer health care or other benefits for partners of LGBT employees? There are a lot of hard working gay men and women in the company who play important roles in the success of Cedar Fair, it would be nice if the company would recognize this by coming into the 21st century and crafting HR policies that are on par with other big entertainment companies in this area.

That's a good question, and an excellent point.

Ohio State, where I taught before coming to Mount Union, extends benefits to partners, and so does Mount Union.

There are many, many places of employment that are ahead of the curve, but I have no idea if Cedar Point is one of them.

Good point, Bayern. CP won't even give parking stickers to partners of full-time gay employees. Extremely lame. I somewhat understand insurance, but other benefits? Who knows - that may change in the future.

What most of the general public doesn't understand is these restaurants are all franchised, and each individual franchisee has their own views and opinions, which, unfortunately, are silenced. Many probably agree with him, but I've seen stories that many do not.

So if anything, unless this all blows up even worse, CP doesn't really have any reason to boot them. They could go pro-active and state that the franchise in the park does not share the corporate practice of anti-gay spending. But what would the consequences be (from CFA corporate) for the particular restaurant? And is that worth it?

It's kind of like when you try to keep a new ride a secret, and your CEO decides to announce it casually to a group of strangers on the midway. Internally speaking, nothing you can do about his power and his voice. Same case here. I suspect a lot of CFA employees didn't even know the company gave money to these causes. He should have donated privately. End of story.

TTD 120mph said:

TwistedWicker77 said:Is repeating the same thing that annoying to you? Because everybody seems to be throwing out their opinions on here and it's basically a big repeat to me too. In any way, shape, or form does it look like I'm trying to force you to stop believing in what you believe in? I'm joining in the discussion too, just as much as the next person TTD120mph.

Yes, it is......but that's my own fault for continuing to take part in this discussion.:)

I'm not going to lie, my temper was short that day. Your comment just got the brunt of it after all the seemingly endless repetition of repeated opinion (from both sides). I wasn't trying to trash your opinions and I never intend to.

No hard feelings! I have days like that. Heck, we all have those days. Some more than others though :)

SSL488 said:
I don't want to start any arguments here, but I am not for gay marriage, but I am not against it either. In my opinion, it is what it is...

I am a Catholic and I know that in my religion, it is frowned upon for same sex marriage. I bring this up because doesn't the Chic follow the catholic beliefs? If so, then I can totally understand why they are trying to put down the gay population. Is it right? NO WAY. But it all comes down to what is right and what is wrong. If I was Cedar Point, I would ask the Chic at the point to not put down the gay population. If they choose not to listen to CP, kick them out!

The CEO is a Southern Baptist.

I'm Catholic, not very devout to my religion itself, but I believe in God and that Jesus is the Son of God, though I an thinking what to believe in and how. I have nothing wrong with the LGBT community, and I think that marriage equality is good, but it is not the biggest thing I worry about.

Obviously some clarification is in order...

Nickster claimed that Cedar Point was spreading Chik-Fil-A's homophobic message.

I claimed that he was "too wrapped up in this" in making that claim.

Understandably, he replied:

Just because I've said my opinion doesn't make me "too wrapped up in this."

No, but the point is that compared to the vast majority of the population, *you actually care*. Continue:

Many people may see all of this Chick-fil-A drama on the local news, Facebook, etc. They may automatically think, "Wow... I'm not eating there if they have that message." And that's the end of that. They aren't going to rummage through the Internet, pinpointing every Chick-fil-A location. And furthermore, who's going to search specifically for a Chick-fil-A location in an amusement park?

But again, you are making an assumption about lots of people that, like it or not, I don't think is really true. I'm getting hammered with comments on both sides about this, but almost all of the yelling is coming from Facebook, and that is almost entirely because the vast majority of my "friends" are coaster nuts and University academics. For demographic reasons, I am surrounded (on Facebook) by people for whom this is a Really Big Deal. But among other populations that are a part of my "friends", the issue is hardly even mentioned. I saw maybe one, possibly two mentions in television news. That's hardly top-of-mind consciousness. The result is that Average Joe, who believes himself to be totally unaffected by the whole argument, is going to see the news story, decide he is either unhappy or happy about it, but the fact is, if he even noticed what company it was, he'll have forgotten by the next commercial spot.

My point is, *you* are not that person. *You* actually care. You are not the average Joe. Heck, you're probably not even the average Nickster! Anyway, proceed...

Then that person walks into Cedar Point, greeted with Chick-fil-A. What are they going to think? "Huh... I didn't know Cedar Point were those type of people." It's going to damage Cedar Point by keeping this restaurant in the park. No, it's not going to be this big, major hit to their reputation, but there is going to be a small impact.

However, it is true that Chick-fil-A's reputation is permanently damaged. I know personally, I won't ever be eating there. There's nothing that this company can do, now. They've now lost the respect of many people.

Thing is, the average guy walking into Cedar Point...remember, that person who thinks he's totally unaffected by the whole debate about gay marriage, is tired of hearing about it, probably went to get himself a beverage when the news story came on...sees Chik-Fil-A, and is most likely to think one or more of the following:

a) "Yum! Chik-Fil-A makes great chicken sandwiches!"
b) "Ick. Chik-Fil-A makes lousy chicken sandwiches!"
c) "How come that place is never open?"

Like it or not, for most people, corporate philosophy (beyond the price, service and selection) is really far down on the list of things they care about when making a purchase. If that were not the case, most of the biggest brands in America would have either changed practices or gone out of business a long time ago.

And that, Nickster, is what I mean when I say you are "too wrapped up in this". The missing phrase is, "...to know what most people think." The point is that *you care,* in fact you obviously *care very much*. Please don't take that the wrong way: it is a very good thing to be passionate about whatever you're passionate about. Hell, every person on this site is here because we are more passionate about Cedar Point than most people. But in the midst of all that you have to remember that no matter what you're passionate about, *most people* do not share in your passion.

You know how we have to remind each other that Cedar Point was not built with *us* in mind? Yeah, it's the same thing. Different issue, different population, and I daresay that in this case you're part of a larger group than a bunch of Cedar Point nuts. But compared to the total population, the raw numbers are still pretty small.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

RideMan said:
No, but the point is that compared to the vast majority of the population, *you actually care*.

As I said before...

I said:
No, it's not going to be this big, major hit to their reputation, but there is going to be a small impact.

So, there may be more people that don't care over people that do care about the issue. But the point is, the people that do care about the issue actually exist. Just because there are more people that don't care than people that do care doesn't mean that the issue isn't important.

And if nobody cared about the issue, it wouldn't have even made waves on the news/Facebook/this forum.

RideMan said:
My point is, *you* are not that person. *You* actually care. You are not the average Joe.

So, you're saying that in order to fit into the definition of "Average Joe," I have to be neutral on every debate that ever arises?

The missing phrase is, "...to know what most people think."

Okay, I'll admit: I'm not in the right position to say "what most people think." However, neither are you. Unless someone ran through Cedar Point with a clipboard, asking a bunch of visitors about the issue, no one on this forum can say "what most people think."

Nickster said:

RideMan said:
No, but the point is that compared to the vast majority of the population, *you actually care*.

As I said before...

Precisely.

I said:
No, it's not going to be this big, major hit to their reputation, but there is going to be a small impact.

So, there may be more people that don't care over people that do care about the issue. But the point is, the people that do care about the issue actually exist. Just because there are more people that don't care than people that do care doesn't mean that the issue isn't important.

True. I'm not saying it is not important. I'm saying that an awful lot of people simply don't care. Or if they do care, they don't care *enough* to actually do anything about it, including relatively minor changes in behavior. The Internet Echo Chamber effect tends to make it easy to believe that any given group is larger than it really is. Again, it is a pattern that lots of businesses exploit in order to "get away" with all kinds of malfeasance, whether it is supporting unworthy causes, exploiting their own workers, or lobbying for legislation hostile to their best customers.

These are not value judgments. These are observations.

And if nobody cared about the issue, it wouldn't have even made waves on the news/Facebook/this forum.

Again, true.

RideMan said:
My point is, *you* are not that person. *You* actually care. You are not the average Joe.

So, you're saying that in order to fit into the definition of "Average Joe," I have to be neutral on every debate that ever arises?

Statistically, that's almost true. Which is interesting because that also means that almost nobody is non-committal enough about everything to actually represent everybody.

The missing phrase is, "...to know what most people think."

Okay, I'll admit: I'm not in the right position to say "what most people think." However, neither are you. Unless someone ran through Cedar Point with a clipboard, asking a bunch of visitors about the issue, no one on this forum can say "what most people think."

True. The best we can do is to generalize. And unfortunately, experience suggests that the bigger the population sample gets, the worse the apathy gets.

PointBuzz happens to be a very small sample, so you won't find quite so much apathy here. :)

Anyway, we're apparently on the same statistical page here (notice the degree to which I am violently agreeing with you); that was my primary concern.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Dave, I very much enjoyed your response to Nickster (the one before last) as I think it was well thought out, correct in it's thesis, and written in a mature manner. I know, I know... there hasn't been much (if any) maturity on this thread, which is maybe why I am making such a big deal about it.

Imagine what the world would be like if we could all discuss things in a rational manner, absent of name calling, stereotyping, etc...