Cedar Point new security checkpoint

TwistedWicker77 said:

I am more than happy to wait longer to enter the park knowing that my riding buddies and I will be safe from any unfortunate situation occurring.

Riiiiiight. And you probably believe the Patriot Act keeps you safe too, right?

Like, are we really complaining about how metal detection is going to cause a longer wait?

No.

This entire discussion reminds me of The Joker in The Dark Knight:

"I just did what I do best. I took your little plan and I turned it on itself. Look what I did to this city with a few drums of gas and a couple of bullets. Hmmm? You know... You know what I've noticed? Nobody panics when things go "according to plan." Even if the plan is horrifying! If, tomorrow, I tell the press that, like, a gang banger will get shot, or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up, nobody panics, because it's all "part of the plan". But when I say that one little old mayor will die, well then everyone loses their minds!"

Terrorists feed on fear. Whether or not they're actually going to do something, just you over-analyzing and over-protecting is exactly what they want. They'll find a way of causing the most panic: whether that's actually realized or not.

Terrorists don't want you to live your life in the way that you normally do and security theater plays right into their hands.

Very true, terrorists don't really care about killing a few people, they want their killing to make a statement to try to get the rest of society to live in fear and disrupt their lives.

Just my two cents.

1) Is Cedar Point as big a risk as Disney for a terror attack? Probably not. However, one need to look no further than the news to know that some mentally unstable person may try to get attention by trying some type of attack at Cedar Point. I believe any security measures would at least make someone think twice about doing such a thing.

2) Cedar Point, as a place where the public gathers, has a legal obligation to protect it's guests from any known risks. If it did not, and something happened, they could be held liable.

3) If something did happen without security measures in place, this board would be filled with people demanding Cedar Point should have done something about it.

4) I believe it was already said but worth repeating, if you do not like the rules of a private company and it's management, it is your choice not to obey them. However, the private company can choose not to let you onto their property.

CPjim, what you are saying is not wrong. But don't assume that metal detectors are CP's security and without them there would be nothing. CP has always had an​ excellent Police Department and behind the scenes security that is much better and more effective than detectors. That is why some people call the detectors​ CYA security theater.

Have you ever seen a fight almost break out at Cedar Point? From a security perspective that really is the biggest risk, and when it happens the response is pretty amazing. Every time I have seen it happen (and it is actually pretty rare), a cooler was present in less time than it took for the incident to escalate. I have seen CPP respond and quash so quickly and so discreetly that most people present didn't even know what happened.

That 99% of the people in the park are there to have a good time usually makes the disagreements straighten out pretty quickly. When big guys with radios and uniformed officers start to materialize, more often than not the argument suddenly vanishes. And all the officer had to do was show up.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

RideMan said:

Have you ever seen a fight almost break out at Cedar Point? From a security perspective that really is the biggest risk, and when it happens the response is pretty amazing. Every time I have seen it happen (and it is actually pretty rare), a cooler was present in less time than it took for the incident to escalate.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Dave, sorry to be uninformed, but I don't understand the "cooler" reference. Can you expand?

Chris

Just a shot in the dark, but it sounds like the security guard(s) who comes in to break everyone up and "cool them off" to prevent a fight from occurring.

Cooler....

Cooler...

Cooler?

Sollybeast said:

Cooler?

Ecto-Cooler now available at CP food stands and self-service vending machines, only $9.99 plus tax... or Save $1.00 and buy a 4-pack for only $38.96

Right, bootymix96, that's pretty much what I have in mind. Not necessarily an officer, but someone who will politely but firmly...possibly through presence and intimidation alone...remind the parties that they are not here for the purpose of brawling.

Sometimes all it takes is the very obvious presence of an interested person with a name tag and a radio. Occasionally it requires the very obvious presence of a uniformed person with a badge and a gun. Once in a while, these people even have to say something. It doesn't often go further than that. After all, most people just want to have a good time.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

CPJim123 said:
...to know that some mentally unstable person may try to get attention by trying some type of attack at Cedar Point. I believe any security measures would at least make someone think twice about doing such a thing.

Not sure I can buy into the idea of a mentally unstable person giving a second thought to any security measures. Targeted security measures would be, I think, more effective.

If something did happen without security measures in place, this board would be filled with people demanding Cedar Point should have done something about it.

A) Absent security theatre checks at the gate, Cedar Point still has security measures in place.
B) I wouldn't be one of those people.

"A) Absent security theatre checks at the gate, Cedar Point still has security measures in place."

Without the "security theatre" at the gate, I am not aware of any measures which prevent someone from carrying a weapon into the park.

Security theater isn't going to stop anyone from carrying a gun into the park to do harm either.

The park is full of weapons and potential weapons already. The reality is, if you are truly interested in keeping the park reasonably safe, you really don't care if people are bringing in weapons (or things that could be used as weapons) or not. What you care about is making sure that people do not cause harm while in the park. Preventing them from bringing in that which you think could possibly be used as a weapon has little to do with how safe everyone is. You can have a large crowd of people with lots of weapons and not have any trouble (when was the last time you heard of a criminal shooting at a gun show?) and you can have a large crowd that has been screened for weapons and still have a serious incident (I-X Center brawl).

As for my opening statement, if you think the only weapons already in the park are being carried by the armed police (who, I should point out, can be turned into unarmed police by sufficiently talented thugs) then you suffer from a lack of imagination. Anything that can be weilded, thrown, shoved, kicked, or dropped is a potential weapon. Basically anything that isn't nailed down, and some things that are. And yet if we focus on some subset of objects that people might bring in through the gate, that's going to make us safe.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

RideMan said:
....when was the last time you heard of a criminal shooting at a gun show?...

It's my understanding that people attending gun shows aren't allowed to carry their guns into the gun show :-)

That may be, and as such it may tip my hand as "Not A Gun Guy" in spite of my stance on the issue. I have heard of accidental discharges at such events, but having never been to such a show I don't know the rules. I do know there are plenty of arms and ammo present, which means if the presence of a firearm is likely to lead to its use, the elements are certainly there.

The point is that trying to prevent a long (and unpublished) list of prohibited items from entering the park is a difficult and probably losing battle that does not address the real problem. The real problem is to monitor and manage customer behavior, and doing things to aggravate the customer are generally going to result in a negative outcome.

Again, the question is one of what kind of image do you want to present to the customer? And what is your opinion of your customer? Does your venue attract such a sketchy crowd that you have to take drastic measures at the entrance? Do you view each and every customer as a potential felon looking for an opportunity to wreak havoc? Are you implying that I should fear for my safety when I come here?

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

noggin said:

RideMan said:
....when was the last time you heard of a criminal shooting at a gun show?...

It's my understanding that people attending gun shows aren't allowed to carry their guns into the gun show :-)

I think this has less to do with security and more to do with vendors selling those products. Those vendors have proper licenses to sell and track purchasers. They don't want to risk the "loophole" of some guy selling what he's carrying for cash to whomever walks by. Places that sell food don't allow people to bring their own food in, either.