Breakers Hotel Experience...

But it won't become much of a destination without offering anything else. They want to be a destination, but want the proof that they are a destination before they invest in becoming one. Someone's just got to take the chance. And for some reason I don't think that'll happen until a certain "Big Bang" retirement happens.

^^ I don't believe that for one second. I know plenty of people who would like to have something to do with their nights when they're on point.

Even when I stay for the weekend, I'm bored for a few hours until I go to sleep. If a guest is staying for 3 or 4 days, that does not mean they will spend all of their time in the park.

If you build it, they will come - does not apply to just roller coasters anymore. I can guarantee you if they offered some type of night life, no matter what it is, people will be there because someone is always looking for something to do.

edit: jugga got in the way again

*** Edited 10/13/2006 2:56:23 PM UTC by e x i t english***

Here is what they should do:

When they replace the Bon Air wing...reserve the entire first floor for a children's activity area. Build one of those multi-level play structures for the little ones that keep kids busy for hours. Build a "tween" room with video games, tvs, etc.

Charge parents $5 per kid for the drop off and hand them a pager. Staff the place with trained, certified child care folks.

Then, expand the adult opportunities to more than just Fridays. I don't think they need a Pleasure Island but a couple of options would be nice. How about a comedy hall? There are plenty of good comics that come out of Ohio.

I guarantee you I would spend far more than what it costs to pay staff at the childcare place on food and beverage after hours.

If you are someone who routinely spends $200/night on a hotel room, then Breakers is seriously disappointing. That includes the newest rooms. It's not that there is anything wrong with the rooms. It's the little things. Plastic cups rather than glass. Thin, small towels. Inexpensive-to-cheap furnishings. Laminate counters in the bathrooms. An uninteresting lobby.

Then again, these rooms probably aren't over-priced for what they are---namely, rooms within walking distance of a major amusement park. As a comparison, the absolute cheapest rack rate Disney room that is within walking distance of any park is probably the Garden Wing rooms at the Contemporary. They are $260/night in 2007, but that's in the hurricane season of August/September, which is comparable to CP's May, when "new breakers" rooms go for something like $180 or so.

During Disney's peak spring season (which is comparable to Cedar Point's summer season) those rooms are $340/night. The next lowest room within walking distance of any park are the Epcot resorts (Beach, Yacht, and Boardwalk) at $315 offseason/$429 peak.

Yes, even the Contemporary Garden rooms are much nicer than the average New Breakers room, but it also costs nearly twice as much.

On the other hand, CP has gotten better over the years. The cottages and cabins at Lighthouse Point are really quite nice, and are a good fit for families visiting the park for a few days. Castaway Bay is also quite nice, between the spa, the various childrens activities, and the restaruant which is a step up from either Coffee Shop or Breakwater in terms of breakfast offerings. The new hot tub over by Breakers is another good move.

I suspect that, with the eventual changing of the guard up top, we may well see a company more willing to invest in the Resorts side of the business for growth---at Cedar Point as well as some of the other parks, such as Knott's, and maybe even one of the Paramount parks.

If they want to move into a destination place, they really need to hire a better planning staff. The organization of the resort section of the peninsula is just bad. The majority of it is parking lot. That doesn't entice people to "wander around" and discover what's out there to do. I think at least the Soak City lot needs to be relocated. That's prime real estate for the "entertainment" complex you guys are talking about. You would want to attract more than just resort guests to something like that to make is successfull. So, putting it right outside the Magnum gate is where it would be best suited.

I really don't see the need to allow people to park right next to the water park anyways. Provide alternate parking and bring the guests in on some other means of transport. Again I reference Disney as an example. Walt knew what separating the car from the guest meant for the bottom line - money. In addition to making the arrival sequence to the park a "special moment," it also makes getting back to the car inconvenient. Therefore, people are more likely to just stay in the park and spend money. CP has a PRIME site for this. Park, get shuttled to the "resort", spend lots of money, get shuttled back to the car, leave. They even have the bay they could use like back in the day. Make arriving at the "resort" an attraction in itself like the monorail.

halltd said:
That's my point though. What more can they offer than they'll actually see a return on investment? If they built something like Pleasure Island, they'd have a horrific time supporting that.

Have you ever tried to buy a beer at Friday's on most any summer night? We tried to get in there closing weekend the year before last, and forget it, they don't have the capacity to serve people.

The length of stay is irrelevant. I have never stayed on-property at Disney at all, and I've still been to Pleasure Island.

In lieu of a bunch of franchise bars, think Mackinac Island's Main Street, or Put-in-Bay. There is a fairly classic Great Lakes waterfront "look" that people would enjoy. Do that where Cedars is. If the marina jerks object, too bad, someone else will buy those slips.

I have stayed at the breakers twice now. The first time being in early June. That stay was really nice, the staff was very helpful, the room was clean the only downside was the room wasn't all that spectactular for the money. The park was closed by 8:00 pm. and there wasn't anything to do after that. we checked out the pool and hot tubs and that was all cool but they were very crowded. We checked out tgif and had a few drinks but the atmosphere was lacking. how about getting a live band in there or i liked the idea of the comedians.

The second time was in mid sept. This time the staff wasn't nearly as friendly, the rooms were somewhat run down. and still had the same problems after hours. We decided to go into town and find some fun stuff to do.

I'm a passholder and when I go I always plan on about 500-600 dollars on extra activities. If they had more to do they would have gotten it.

Yes, I've been to TGIFridays. We went on a Thursday night in mid August of this year. I was thoroughly unimpressed and will not likely go back. The place was MAYBE half full, and the service was horrendous. I am not a fan of traveling to a resort "destination" and only having chain restaurants to pick from. I can go to a Friday's in any city in the US. Why would I want to go to one on vacation? That's also why I refuse to eat at the Johnny Rocket's in the park.

Jeff, you seem like a smart guy, so it baffles me as to how you can compare Pleasure Island's guest base to that of Cedar Point. How many millions of people visit (and live) in Orlando? That's why you didn't stay on Disney property, but still went to PI. You can't say the same thing about Sandusky, Ohio. Come on now. You just don't have the millions of people staying in the area to come to bars and such on the Point. For one, they'd have to pay to park and get out there.

Keep in mind also that Disney has struggled for quite some time to keep PI profitable. Like you said, lots of people go there, but they still can't seem to keep the place afloat. There's been talk for many years of getting rid of the whole place because its more hassle than anything.

At the same time, I think it needs to be something more than just a bunch of places to get drunk. No one wants to see Put-in-Bay at Cedar Point.

.... well, at least not most people. :)

halltd said:
Jeff, you seem like a smart guy, so it baffles me as to how you can compare Pleasure Island's guest base to that of Cedar Point. How many millions of people visit (and live) in Orlando?

What does that have to do with anything? More than three million people visit Cedar Point in a span of 120 operating days. On a daily average attendance basis, only Magic Kingdom and Epcot can beat that in Orlando. PKI and PCW are the only other seasonal parks that do more. Do the math. CP has a higher daily attendance than IOA, Universal Studios, SeaWorld Orlando, etc. Do you honestly think that there isn't a crap load of cash to be had by giving these people more to do?

That's true Walt, if there was a Put-In-Bay at Cedar Point, I'd probably never make it over to the rides. :)

Seriously though, an entertainment zone at CP would work. It doesn't have to be on the scale of Pleasure Island, two or three GOOD choices would be fine.

Anyone who thinks the Sandusky area can't support such a thing doesn't know the make-up of the area very well. Sandusky Bay is the third largest recreational boating harbor in the United States, based on the number of boats docked there. So, all the boaters, combined with CP park guests, CP resort guests, locals and tourists in the area for things other than CP can most certainly provide enough business, provided CP makes a party zone appealing and entertaining enough. Especially the boaters, who in my experience get on their boats in search of places to get drunk. That's what makes Put-In-Bay so appealing. It's a great boating destination with a hot party scene, and you can dock your boat overnight and not worry about the DUI police.

The Cedars location would be ideal. They could probably reconfigure things, like creating a small harbor in front of the establishments, to make it very nautical.

Maybe CP is starting to see the worth of something like that. I know this summer they tried to push the TGIFriday's on Cleveland road as a boating destination, by advertising live entertainment. Maybe the remodeling/rebuilding at TGIFriday's they are doing over the winter will take things further along that road, and prove the worth of a party zone at CP.

I do hope that the upcoming CEO change will allow the resort folks to spread their wings and make CP the resort it should be. I do love the Breakers, both for nostalgia and for it's great location. But the hotel can be so much more, as can the entire resort operations.

Honestly, I don't think there's a crapload of cash to be had by CP guests. They can barely get cash out of them now. You did see the uproar over parking rates and stickers, right?

What I'm trying to get at here (apparently unsucessfully) is that CP can't afford to invest so heavily in things that Disney can. If they did, they wouldn't have the base to support them. I think you're forgetting that Disney has FOUR parks, three water parks, seemingly endless hotel rooms, and shopping/dinning coming out of their ears. You can't simply compare the daily attendance of CP with a single park at Disney. You have to look at the entire complex. Of course Disney can charge more for admission/dining/hotel rooms. The guest has a million things they can do while there. So, they see it as a higher "value" for their money. If CP started charging what the Yacht & Beach does, I bet their occupancy would plummet.

Keep in mind too that with each "venue" they build, they have to staff it. A roller coaster doesn't take near the amount of staff that a restaurant (or three) takes. Isn't CP cutting staff anyways? I've always thought CPs full-service restaurants and bars have been understaffed. That's why I was so disappointed with TGIFridays.

I totally agree that CP needs something more. Unfortunately, I just don't see it happening.

I'll tell you what Cedar Point needs.

Shot Hoochies.

Especially at Halloweekends. You want to know what will get a lot of people coming back? Hot girls with liquor, that's what. :)

halltd said:
The guest has a million things they can do while there. So, they see it as a higher "value" for their money.

You just said exactly what our points are.

You don't think There's a lot of money to be had by the guests at CP because there's not a million things to do while they're there. -

We keep saying to give them some more things to do, and they will spend money. It's really pretty simple.

edited to combine double posts.

*** Edited 10/13/2006 7:47:55 PM UTC by e x i t english***

Yeah!!! Shot Hoochies!!!

They used to have female sweeperettes exclusively, wearing short shorts no less. Bring them back and let them do double duty as the Shot Hoochies!

*** Edited 10/13/2006 7:57:50 PM UTC by Pete***

halltd said:
Honestly, I don't think there's a crapload of cash to be had by CP guests. They can barely get cash out of them now.

Dude, your entire argument is based on what you "think." Cedar Fair has among the highest per cap spending rates in the entire industry. Don't tell me they can "barely" get cash out of guests. They wrote the book on doing it, and it's what has saved their ass on declines in attendance.

halltd said:
What I'm trying to get at here (apparently unsucessfully) is that CP can't afford to invest so heavily in things that Disney can.

And that's based on your extensive experience in building entertainment venues? No one is asking for them to build Expedition Everest. They build $20+ million roller coasters that give them a big marketing push for one year, or two at best. The Breakers Tower expansion was $16 million. Breakers Express paid for itself in the first year. They can afford to do whatever they want, and the time is ripe.

Pete said:
Especially the boaters, who in my experience get on their boats in search of places to get drunk.

But that's not what Cedar Point needs. They need entertainment options, not bars.

Maybe Cedar Point can't support a House of Blues, but what about a similar experience with live music? Or a comedy/improv club? Lots of options.

The draw would be more reaching than just on-site resort guests.

A concert hall would be a great draw. Get the right acts in there and more often than not they'll come to the point during the day see their show later that night and stay at the hotel because its there.

The concert thing is not a big profit draw, and they know this now that they own PKI. They don't have the infrastructure to handle both park visitors and a concert crowd.

Bars aren't about a place to get drunk, they're about a place to be social, dance and have a girlie drink.

Walt, I have to disagree with you on bars. A House of Blues or an Improv IS a bar, with higher end entertainment, but most definatly a bar.

Yes, those are the kind of places CP needs. A Jimmy Buffett's Margaritaville would be ideal for some live entertainment and fun, mixed in with some food and drinks. At any liqour establishment you will have people in various states of intoxication. They come to have a good time in the way that works for them.

A draw that extends beyond the CP resorts is exactly what I meant about drawing the boaters in. Make it fun and they will come. Boaters do have a reputation as partiers, but in general they are a well behaved group that won't cause problems.