Big Dipper to CP?

The problem with the American car manufacturerers, the the payroll expense. This economy is downhill, and is still going downhill. The Big 3 is losing money over lack of sales, and a very high payroll expense.

There's absoultely no reason that expense needs to be high. Yeah, it's a factory job, yeah it's hot in there, and so forth, but even 15-20 dollars should be what they make her hour. I know this sounds low, compared to what they are getting right now, but it makes it level with everyone else.

Their jobs could be done, by robots, or by picking a guy off the street. Little skill is required.

The unions in the car manufacturing (UAW), has made the Big 3 suffer.

As was pointed out be ChiefWahoo, most plant jobs are already done by robots.

You'd be amazed at the level of automation and manufacturing flexibility of these plants, especially with regard to Chrysler LLC. And as anyone involved in manufacturing could attest, automation and flexibility don't coexist easily.

gener said:
Public pressure irrelevent? Isn't that why CP wasn't turned into the Fort Lauderdale of the north?

Hooray for irrelevancy. No such public pressure exists today.

Someone asked when was the parks golden age. And I'd have to agree with the 80's and the introduction of the waterpark.

And what do you know, they're emphasizing the water park now.

2000 was the peak for the park in term of attendance, revenue and profit. And it was the same product that was offered for decades with some serious capital improvements. The changes were so well received that season pass sales for the '01 season had already broken records before the anouncement of the purchase of Sea World. The old GLP was a product that was a more affordable alternative to the larger parks. It was a nice one day park that offered a good waterpark, excellent catering opportunites for groups and a little regional park with some nice rides. It was perceived as a good value, and that product still has a market in the region.

You're totally wrong, and the market has shown that. You can build out like crazy as Six Flags did in 2000, and get anyone in there once. That wasn't sustainable, and that's why the drop off was enormous every year thereafter.

It promised to bring back the old GLP. But they never did. People showed up to see what was different or brought back and found that nothing was ever changed. It was still the same park that was neglected in the waining years under SFI.

Wait... you said what the park was in its "golden age" and Cedar Fair scaled it back to exactly that. It sure as hell wasn't neglected. I was so happy to see it be clean and well run, as it was pre-Premier Parks.

Before SWO closed the parks attendance was consistantly over 1.2 million annually. The majority of that attendance came from two sources that were not impacted by the co-location of the whale: season passes and group sales... Back in 90's GLP was drawing at least 700k (conservativly) on its own.

No, and no. In the last few years, SeaWorld was making every ticket a season pass just to get some bodies to come back in beyond one visit. That didn't work either. It was not sustainable. GL in the 90's, the later half of which was under Six Flags (then called Premier Parks) rule, was questionable in terms of profitability. And when SeaWorld went away, there went the symbiotic relationship that helped the parks prop each other up.

Cleaning up the old GLP, reintroducing decent guest service standards and a return to the traditional GLP market of customers would in my opinion lead to the greatest possible revenue stream for that property. A seasonal waterpark in Cleveland is something that limited potential in comparison. Even a paltry 700,000 attendance for a 65 acre park is enough revenue to support a good product that is manged properly. The problem isn't the concept, it was the implimentation.

Well you're obviously incorrect, because they did exactly what you described, and it didn't work out. I know that the tax situation in particular was killing them.

Cedar Fair's error was buying the park in the first place. Fortunately, they got it so cheap that I suspect they can at least make it a break-even proposition in the long run.

The fact that SeaWorld pulled out was a pretty clear sign that this property was no longer working.

How many SeaWorlds were there in the US? 3? And they couldnt make a profit?

Jeff said:
Wait... you said what the park was in its "golden age" and Cedar Fair scaled it back to exactly that. It sure as hell wasn't neglected. I was so happy to see it be clean and well run, as it was pre-Premier Parks.

I agree the park was ran well and it was very clean. I grew up going to Geauga Lake, and GL&WWK was getting there, I think if the ride side was going to be open that it would have been at pre pemire status with in the next few years. I beleve most of the parks downfall was Six Flags, they debuted 5 new rides in one year, I think if they would of put in those rides in a 5 year period I think it would have lasted because guest would be comeing back year after year with something new. I remember going to Six Flags twice and I did not like it. When I went back to GL in 2005 my opinon changed for the better. The water park blew me away and it was nice not haveing to wait in lines for a ride unlike Cedar Point on a busy day.

Norton Updated their site. It doesn't appear as though the brochure was updated though. The following rides were added to the auction: Big Dipper, Thriller Bees (Huss Bee Bee), Ripcord (Skycoaster), Pirate's Flight (Balloon Race), Star Castle Voyage (Vekoma Swing Carousel)

The following rides have yet to be listed or announced as being relocated or perhaps sold.

Beaver Land Mine Ride
Head Spin
Black Squid
June Bug Jump
Tea Party
Thunder Alley Speedway
El Dorado
Americana
Merry Oldies
Carousel
Dodgems
Turbo Bungee

So what's happening with Big Dipper now? Are they dismantling the ride anyway and storing it or is it still standing?

It's still up.

http://www.auroraadvocate.com/news/article/4050292

Just in case I'm missing something, the only new information in that link is that there is going to be an official announcement by the end of the week. Right?

Yeah, exciting isn't it. ;)

Am I misreading or did it actually sell for 5k? If you live close enough to your work you could spend that on BD and set the track up between one and the other and save loads on gas, much less than the price of a Prius.

^ It actually did sell for 5k, but the real cost is in moving the ride. It's estimated that it will cost millions to dismantle the ride and reassemble it. So yes, the ride itself was a bargain, but moving it will cost a ton regardless of how much the ride sells for.

a brand new wooden coaster only costs a few million. I really doubt it'll cost that much to move this coaster, especially if they aren't planning on setting it up so it can run again.

Didn't someone say on here that DK said it costs .50 on the dollar to move a coaster?

There is something, a cost, that everyone here is not taking into consideration.Liability insurance.. You have to be insured to bring in a crew, cranes, trucks to haul.

And yes, lladnar, it's been quoted at "more than a million dollars" to move the coaster.

A new wooden coaster costs about 6 times that to build.

And lets not forget that wood coasters can be transported in the kind of chunks that steel coasters can. They have to be broken down quite a bit further, if not into individual boards, to be moved.

To build a brand new coaster the size of Big Dipper would not cost 6 million dollars. Voyage was only 6.5 million. I just find it really hard to believe that it would cost much more than a million dollars to move a coaster when all the design, engineering, and most of the materials are already paid for, especially if the ride wasn't going to be used as a ride anymore like the article said.

But then again, I'm sure the people that made that quote know more than I do. Its interesting that someone would pay a million bucks for a wooden rollercoaster sculpture.

In addition, when a wood coaster is rebuilt, they don't reuse all of the wood. Much of it is new. The person who told me this also said something about leteral supports, but I can't remember exactly what he said and I don't wantr to misstate what he said. He also said survey of the existing site would be necessary as well. He said after a coaster has been in as long as one like dipper, you can't just rebuild it off a set of blue prints, you need to verify wether or not any of the footers have settled.