announcement date 8/18/15

Ridership data usually does tell a pretty complete story. In the same general area of the park of have Maverick with some of the highest yearly ride totals and longest lines (yes, horrible capacity and fast lane doesn't help) and Mean Streak which is usually a walk on even on the busiest days. Why are these riders on Maverick not also riding Mean Streak? Will Mean Streak get an RMC overhaul? Maybe, maybe not. But if it came down to a million plus in maintenance every season for an unpopular ride versus 15 million overhaul that could drastically change the ride and its popularity for the better I'd say it's worth it long term. BUT, Mean Steak is currently a pipe dream, how about that shiny new B&M?!

CoasterGuy15 said:

I really don't see why everyone is drooling over dark rides either, myself.

I'm not "drooling" over a dark ride. But Mr Ouimet said, in the L.A.Times interview, that dark rides are coming to all Cedar Fair parks under the company's Amusement Dark banner. They're coming, whether we like it or not. :-)

I'm no fan of "interactive" dark rides myself; I'd rather sit and enjoy the show, so to speak, but I understand the appeal and why they're popular.

Top_Thrill_Tyler said:

Yes, this is the planning/design office. I never realized just how big this building was until I went inside during the Winter Chill Out to see the new Rougarou trains this year. It's HUGE, and seemed to be a primary storage site for the park. I understand the need to move things off site (hopefully Cedars is gone soon) but it may not be easy with a building used for this purpose. Some stuff has to be stored on site, and you can't forget about the office space in the building too. I don't believe the park has any offices located anywhere off the peninsula right now either.

Good to know what's actually in the building! Thought it was just storage for things like Halloweekends. There actually seems to be room for both a dark ride and a design/planning office in that area if I zoomed out a tad bit. Just trying to think out of the box as to where a dark right might be added (and look good) other than the pirate or coliseum buildings. This is definitely an option I feel.

Maverick does have long lines - certainly a testament to its poor capacity. But in 2013 it barely cracked a million riders. Good for 8th just on the list of rides Tony provided 2013 ridership data for. That doesn't scream "highest yearly ride totals". Capacity is too much of an influence on ridership data to determine if a ride is "popular" or not based strictly on the numbers. And Maverick really isn't that close to Mean Streak. It's similar in the way that Raptor isn't exactly close to Blue Streak. Having an entrance on a midway and not on a dead end area with no other attractions nearby does make a difference. As long as a ride is running consistent full trains the length of the line has no influence on ridership capacity (it would actually possibly increase it since people would rather not wait in line than wait in a 2 hour one.) And usually Mean Streak is running close to full trains on average days and even a 20 minute or so line during most weekends i've visited. The ride also opens an hour or two later than the park opens most of the last few years, another direct influence on ridership. I just know that I've heard people comment on the ride having low ridership and there's alot more to it than just people possibly not liking the ride.

CoasterGuy15 said:

I really don't see why everyone is drooling over dark rides either, myself... It would require to be situated in a large building, and I'm not sure we want to see a large steel shoe box on Lake Erie. I mean, isn't that what we just got away from?

Why do you, and others, always assume that a dark ride will be a giant metal box? There is no basis for this whatsoever, as Cedar Fair's Triotech Dark rides have been in buildings like this:

And this:

Because a certain giant metal box blocked the beach for many a year before its eventual demise?

TTD6262 said:

CoasterGuy15 said:

I really don't see why everyone is drooling over dark rides either, myself... It would require to be situated in a large building, and I'm not sure we want to see a large steel shoe box on Lake Erie. I mean, isn't that what we just got away from?

Why do you, and others, always assume that a dark ride will be a giant metal box? There is no basis for this whatsoever, as Cedar Fair's Triotech Dark rides have been in buildings like this:

Very likely that CP will build a giant mountain/waterfall to house the dark ride... not. If anything it MIGHT look something like the VTTIR building, especially if it goes into the colliceum building. I mean, isn't that an arcade under it? But the majority of my basis indeed comes from what 4lyf said... especially since they're not very good at theming.

noggin said:

I'm not "drooling" over a dark ride. But Mr Ouimet said, in the L.A.Times interview, that dark rides are coming to all Cedar Fair parks under the company's Amusement Dark banner. They're coming, whether we like it or not. :-)

They sound a lot like winter.

Can't we please give Matt Ouimet credit for not being Dick Kinzel?

Cedar Fair, under Ouimet, has made so many good choices. Let's give Ouimet and his team the benefit of the doubt here.

They've added two of these dark rides so far, both in existing facilities: maybe they'll do the same at Cedar Point, maybe they'll put up a new building -- can't we wait until they've failed to maintain the theming before condemning them for not maintaining the theming?

Rougarou's "theming"...

CoasterGuy15 said:

TTD6262 said:

CoasterGuy15 said:

I really don't see why everyone is drooling over dark rides either, myself... It would require to be situated in a large building, and I'm not sure we want to see a large steel shoe box on Lake Erie. I mean, isn't that what we just got away from?

Why do you, and others, always assume that a dark ride will be a giant metal box? There is no basis for this whatsoever, as Cedar Fair's Triotech Dark rides have been in buildings like this:

Very likely that CP will build a giant mountain/waterfall to house the dark ride... not. If anything it MIGHT look something like the VTTIR building, especially if it goes into the colliceum building. I mean, isn't that an arcade under it? But the majority of my basis indeed comes from what 4lyf said... especially since they're not very good at theming.

I'm not saying Cedar Point will or should build a Mountain, I'm saying that besides a 1980s era architecture style building that has since been demolished, nothing about recent Cedar Fair dark rides says "metal shoe box", yet several people here say it as if that is the only building possible for a dark ride.

If they are doing something about the seemingly forgotten by the public Blue Streak area I will be glad to see it. Blue Streak is a classic and it's quite sad it seems tucked away in a corner and hidden by Raptor. Hopefully this new coaster will bring some life back to the area if the entrance and exit is there.

As far as Mean Streak, I am of the opinion just get rid of the whole thing and start over. The layout isn't really that good. There are some amazing wooden coasters that have been built in recent years that I think Cedar Point should have something on par with them at the very least. There's going to be some stiff competition from Dollywood. I hope "all will be clear" with Mean Streak soon.

I have a feeling they were sold on this virtual shooter dark ride business because there would be less maintenance involved, I don't know how anything would be better than real objects vs. a screen, no matter what hype they are trying to sell on this concept. It's disappointing to read that they haven't kept up with what little maintenance these rides require on the ones that have been installed.

Guardian's mountain was put there by Taft Broadcasting when they built the park. I watched Kings Island story on youtube not long ago and have an even better appreciation for how that park was built and the attention to detail. Canada's Wonderland was built in 1981 and still delivered phenomenal aspects like that mountain. I think a lot of that stems from the original Coney Island and how immaculate and beautified that park was before they moved out. They achieved their dreams when they got Taft on board and built the new parks.

It makes me wonder why Cedar Point can't or rather won't try something better than screens. I mean, how does Knoebel's do it?

CoasterGuy15 said:
Very likely that CP will build a giant mountain/waterfall to house the dark ride... not.

Sorry, but just had to say thank you for the mental teleportation back to 1992. Monkeys are flying out of my butt.

With Cedar Fair and dark rides I think it will be important that we manage our expectations. They can't/won't do anything like Curse of DarKastle, Calico Mine Ride, or Monster Mansion and I'm not sure I would want to see them try. Triotech apparently fits the kind of budget (financially and creatively) they want to allow for a dark ride attraction.

Cedar Point in particular is well above-average on many fronts in terms of coasters, hotels, and entertainment but perhaps it just isn't the kind of park that gets a "real" dark ride. The dark ride concept apparently needs to be, in the view of Cedar Fair at least, interactive and high-tech in order to resonate with today's guests.

As far as Maverick capacity decreasing, when did they replace the single rider line with Fast Lane? Since doing that, it seems that there are far too many empty seats on trains that only hold 12 people.

3snoH un=l said:

As far as Mean Streak, I am of the opinion just get rid of the whole thing and start over. The layout isn't really that good. There are some amazing wooden coasters that have been built in recent years that I think Cedar Point should have something on par with them at the very least. There's going to be some stiff competition from Dollywood. I hope "all will be clear" with Mean Streak soon.

Yes I say start all over with Mean Streak. Its bad reputation is going to hurt it even if it gets remodel/retracked. I've noticed many people walking past Rougaroo and people still don't realize its not Mantis anymore.

Cedar Point has ZERO competition from Dollywood. Two totally different regions and markets. Look at the stuff Cedar Point has vs Dollywood. Just because Dollywood has a few wood coasters doesn't mean they are stiff competition. Small park in a tourist town area like Gattlingburg/Pigeon Forge vs Cedar Point being one of the largest Amusement parks in the world with people traveling all over to visit.

My prediction is NO wood coasters for Cedar Point again.

gtpsuper24 said:

3snoH un=l said:

As far as Mean Streak, I am of the opinion just get rid of the whole thing and start over. The layout isn't really that good. There are some amazing wooden coasters that have been built in recent years that I think Cedar Point should have something on par with them at the very least. There's going to be some stiff competition from Dollywood. I hope "all will be clear" with Mean Streak soon.

Yes I say start all over with Mean Streak. Its bad reputation is going to hurt it even if it gets remodel/retracked. I've noticed many people walking past Rougaroo and people still don't realize its not Mantis anymore.

Maybe if the wolf howl was still playing people would look up and see the new conversion?

Yikes! Lots of complaining!

Since it looks like Valravn is legitimately the next addition, I'm excited about it. Yeah, that area is going to change, but if the ride experience is anything like Shiekra, people are in for a treat. Say what you will about the addition and subtraction of attractions, but the park has essentially traded Wildcat and Disaster Transport for Gatekeeper and Valravn. I'll take it!

On the family stuff? From my perspective that's a work in progress and I've been a pretty vocal opponent on the recent reduction in those family rides. However, the Gemini and Wicked Twister midway renovations created areas where the family and do things together. Sure, Monster, Wilderness Run, Dodgem and Tiki Twirl aren't new, but they clustered rides together that can be experienced with younger riders, and they positioned those areas against the 'kids areas.' I think it's a very strategic reorganization of attractions and based on my visits with the kids this year, those are the two areas we hung around at the most.

Not only that, but the Breakers update and Lakeside pavilion is geared towards family. You can't forget that it came with a gigantic price tag. It's not a ride, but again its something that the family experiences together.

I don't understand the complaining behind this Rougarou theming 'not being kept up', because it's all still there. As of yesterday, there was fog, lights, and sounds.

Now, one thing that changed between opening weekend and now is the volume of the sounds. And I think its for the better. That area by the lift and loop was waaaaay too loud. You couldn't have a conversation with anyone at all, even if the ride wasn't running.

The park is going through a pretty significant transformation and has been since 2012. I'm still confident that we will see those family attractions introduced, but I'm excited to see that they are still including the thrill rides too!

Nicely stated, Rob. And yes, people just need to be patient. The Ouimet-McClure era is still in its infancy.

Agree with HeyIsntThatRob right down the line.