announcement date 8/18/15

So as I'm looking at Coaster Force's youtube videos and watching some POV's, 2 of them stuck out to me.

The first one is Pandemonium at Six Flags Fiesta Texas. I've been on this myself and I can firmly say that it is a fun ride not just for kids but people of all ages. It's a Gerstlauer Spinning coaster and it can fit into a compact spot, plus I'm sure Cedar Point could get a custom layout to prevent getting a clone.

The second one is "The Dark Knight", a hybrid wild mouse/dark ride at Six Flags Great America. I think something like this would be far better than a Wonder Mountain's Guardian type dark ride/coaster as it is a completely legitimate coaster, just with effects. I still don't get why Cedar Point can't get a dark ride like this as they have a similar financial situation as Six Flags. I know Cedar Point is worried about upkeep of effects, as Triotech is very low maintenance, but TDK coaster just gives such a better and more fun experience in my opinion. Of course the issue is Cedar Point would have to make up a decent story and run with it, as they don't do movie themes.

The important thing is both those rides have a height limit of a mere 42 inches and would be enjoyable to both kids with families and the older crowds.

Tilt-a-Whirl said:

I understand the park does research for their capital, however they're asking the wrong people. They interview people who are already in the park and ask them what they want to see.

Well, people who have spent money to get into the park are people Cedar Fair would like to continue to spend money to get into the park.... taking all those folks opinions into consideration seems pretty smart to me.

They need to go outside the park into their marketable regions and ask people what would make them visit the park--- I'm sure they'd get drastically different answers.

How do you know they don't? Aside from the park not reflecting your personal desires with new additions?

It's a model that's over ten years old, and it's just more of the same.

Which would be news of no interest to the vast majority of park guests who live hundreds of miles away from the two dive coasters currently operating in the U.S.

My biggest challenge is trying to understand why this addition is happening after multiple interviews from the executive team state they're moving focus to more family friendly attractions.

Perhaps because it fits in with Cedar Fair's long term goals for the park?

TTD 120mph said:
Cedar Point could build a super family friendly dark ride experience AND do an RMC makeover of Mean Streak in 2018 and there would still be enthusiasts complaining. I'm just getting a kick on how fake some people on the various forums think all of this stuff is. Like this is SOOO not something Cedar Point would do.

I think everyone more or less agrees that a dive coaster is coming. What's fake is the No Limits video that was created and touted as the real deal some pages back. Could it be based on the layout? Sure. Professionally produced? Not so much. Other than that, I think we're all on board.

TTD 120mph said:

So, if Cedar Point is staging all of this, did they request that B&M manufacture a bunch of dive coaster track to throw us off? Because at the moment, there are no other parks that are known to be getting a dive machine in 2016.

p.s.- I'm asking this sarcastically. :P

That dive coaster track is just papier mache. I expect the fake track pieces will be door prizes at the next Coaster Mania. #hopeiwin #2016pumpkinpatch

The fake track is actually a set of pinatas for the announcement party. They're to be whacked open by eager children and enthusiasts, allowing the actual 2016 plans to spill out...

If the dive coaster rumors are true, which it appears they most likely are, then I'm sure another high capacity (and presumably reliable) smooth B&M will be a huge hit with the crowds. I'll ride it and enjoy it as will most of the folks here.

When I think about the new attraction for 2016 though I can't help but go back to the sign on the wall:

It's not just about the sheer number of thrills
And it's not always about the numbers
It's about the complementary nature, the diverse variety of
these machines of varying height and speed

Another steel B&M that seems like a Rougarou and Gatekeeper blend doesn't really seem like the strongest candidate for the message that they were trying to convey - at least in my opinion. Based upon that description I expected and hoped to see something more along the lines of a Backlot Stunt Coaster type ride instead of Frankenstein...I mean, Valravn. :)

Speaking of Cedar Point ride leaks, today is the 3 year anniversary of the Gatekeeper leak.

http://pointbuzz.com/Forums/Topic/cedar-point-2013/150#467628

jsmith7300 said:
If the dive coaster rumors are true, which it appears they most likely are, then I'm sure another high capacity (and presumably reliable) smooth B&M will be a huge hit with the crowds.

By huge hit: do you mean something that most of the crowd will ride once, then go back to re-riding MF, TTD & Maverick? As is witnessed by the virtual walk on cues of Gatekeeper, Raptor and Manti-headbang-aroo in the afternoons.

Gatekeeper, Raptor, and Rougarou always have full trains except on the slowest of days, therefore it doesn't matter if the line is 10 minutes, or 10 hours long. Just look at last years ridership numbers and it is obvious gatekeeper and raptor aren't one time and done rides.

Except if we took a look only at what the queue looks like, then that would misrepresent the fact that Gatekeeper had over 2 million guests ride it last year.

I mean, look at your argument. First, we all know that crowds tend to do everything at the front of the park first and then make their way back. It's why a popular strategy for more experienced guests is start with Maverick in the back of the park and then work your way back up to the front in the afternoon and ride Raptor and Gatekeeper.

Second, B&M has a ridiculous capacity and ability to move through lines. Intamin has slow load times it seems, hence the need for loading and unloading platforms, as well as multiple trains in a station. Maverick is the best example of this. 24 guests loading at a time doesn't help capacity. That means longer lines for a very popular, fun attraction. When I worked at the park in 2010, the two crews vying for top spot was Magnum and Raptor, and now I'm sure Gatekeeper has joined that conversation.

So please, spare me the anecdotal evidence that just because the B&Ms have shorter wait times means that the populous doesn't like riding them.

Does this in any way sound like there's more than just a Dive Coaster? He says "ALL will be revealed". maybe they will reveal some future plans as well...

XS NightClub said:

By huge hit: do you mean something that most of the crowd will ride once, then go back to re-riding MF, TTD & Maverick? As is witnessed by the virtual walk on cues of Gatekeeper, Raptor and Manti-headbang-aroo in the afternoons.

By "huge hit" I meant that it will please crowds by giving them something to do when MF, Maverick, and TTD are closed for mechanical reasons. :)

In 2014 Gatekeeper gave more rides that Millennium Force and Raptor gave more than Maverick. Sure, you could argue that Gatekeeper was popular because it was still fairly new but Raptor was 20 years old and was the third most popular (by ridership) coaster in the park.

The Intamin coasters are certainly the most thrilling in the park in my opinion but not every rider necessarily wants the type of experiences that they offer. Gatekeeper is my oldest daughter's favorite coaster and she has ridden everything including TTD.

The Intamin rides are my favorites at the park, MF is as reliable as any other ride and also has a great capacity. But when it comes to the line length of Maverick and TTD you can't even compare it to the massive people movers that the B&M's are. Even when TTD and Maverick are running great their capacity is nothing compared to GK Raptor etc...

Don't look at the actual ridership numbers from last year though, it's never a good idea to let facts get in the way when they don't support your opinions. After all, as mentioned above that 20 year old boring one and done Raptor was #3. This years numbers will be interesting to see where Rougarou ranks.

JUnderhill said:

trying to do something to safely relax some height requirements on Gemini, mine ride, Iron Dragon etc...

This, exactly this. The "family ride" gap would still be an issue, but it wouldn't be as bad if some of the height requirements weren't so ridiculous. Iron Dragon is still a touchy subject with me. Raising the height requirement to 48" for no apparent reason, really put a dint in all the "family friendly" stuff done with the Gemini midway. A lot of you on this website couldn't care less about this, because it doesn't apply to you. For those of you who have children bordering that 48" mark, you know what I'm talking about. I mean seriously? Right now if your 47.5" the biggest roller coaster you can ride is Woodstock Express, but if you are 48" suddenly you can ride Millennium Force. It was bad enough before, but having to explain to my daughter last year that she can't ride Iron Dragon now, because some moron decided to change the height requirement to 48", is something I wish no parent have to do.

CoasterGuy15 said:
Does this in any way sound like there's more than just a Dive Coaster? He says "ALL will be revealed".

If I recall correctly, when the teaser and announcement date for Gatekeeper were revealed, the sign said "all will be set free". We got Gatekeeper, a new plaza and entrance. Im thinking more of the same, new coaster, plaza, and marina entrance.

Ensign Smith said:

The fake track is actually a set of pinatas for the announcement party. They're to be whacked open by eager children and enthusiasts, allowing the actual 2016 plans to spill out...

But, when the fake track pinatas finally break open, out will fall...COOKIES! (While a costumed Snoopy does a birthday dance)

I guess it's simple then, people like to wait in lines.
Or they are willing to wait in a line, a long long line, for a much more exciting ride.

After all that sounds so much better than a fifteen minute wait at the front of the park.

And it's interesting that the front/back of the park assessment is used in support of GK lack of line but used as a negative for Skyhawks lack of line.

Either way, I like short lines, I'm at the park enough I won't wait for anything longer than a half hour. Thank you CP for early entry and ERT.

Been lurking for all of this thread but ready to ask a question.

How many posters have been on Wonder Mountain's Guardian, or Voyage to the Iron Reef? Many members here seem to be screaming for CP to put in a family friendly dark ride, but as someone who has experienced Guardian, I can promise you that it's not spectacular by any means, for both thrill seekers and families.

I live about 90 minutes from Canada's Wonderland and have taken a ride on Guardian every time I've been to the park since the dark ride opened. However, that is mostly because Wonderland offers so few other decent rides. Besides the impeccable Leviathan and Behemoth (worth the trip alone), and maybe even Vortex, every other coaster/ride in the park is physically painful. The Bat, Dragon Fyre, The Wildebeast, Mine Buster, and especially Flight Deck, Backlot Stunt Coaster, and Time Warp, are intensely painful. Guardian becomes a go to because it's usually not too long of a wait, and especially because it doesn't hurt. You can't ride Leviathan and Behemoth for the ENTIRE day....

I'm curious as to what others felt about their experience, but in my opinion, Guardian gets old quite quickly. The "drop tower" element is by far the best part, but it's not more than a 2 to 3 second drop. For the interactive shooting aspect, you really only get to compete against the person sitting next to you, as you can't see or hear the two others that you're playing with who are sitting in the same train. Also, the "coaster" element is lacklustre: a short lift hill and one very small dip is far from enjoyable even for those under 42". Last but not least, each time we have been on the ride there have been multiple broken guns, or seats out of order due to faulty equipment. The ride crew does the best to accommodate groups when this happens, but it gets annoying quickly when it's your turn to ride and the train that comes in has two seats out of order and you have to wait to the side for the next fully functioning train. It's at the point where my partner and I will venture over to Planet Snoopy and re-ride Boo Blasters for a second or third time before going to Guardian.

I understand that there is a faction of the public that doesn't want another steel monster, and I am sympathetic to that desire. However, I think that before CP puts in a dark ride like Guardian (or Iron Reef, which I haven't had a chance to ride), they need to:

Improve the technology to make the game/guns more reliable

Design a dynamic layout that makes the ride worth re-riding, by including more coaster track with memorable elements (which don't need to be too intense, just exciting enough not to take away from any family appeal)

Find a way to make the game more interactive (in terms of not just getting to have fun with the person you're sitting beside - even Boo Blasters allows four people to talk and compete on all sides of the train.)

Guardian cost CW $10 million. A few people in this forum have guessed that Valravn has a price tag hovering around $20 million. At double the cost, a world record holding, skyline changing, highly marketable, people moving B&M dive coaster seems like a better investment, especially after three years without a new signature ride. Hopefully the technology advances fast enough that a revolutionary and worthwhile dark ride can be added to the CP lineup. Until then, just put in something akin to Boo Blasters at a far less expensive price to please families.

I rode WM Guardian and was thoroughly disappointed at the prospect of Cedar Point getting such a ride. I thought it was terrible. You can put yourself to sleep by reading all my thoughts in this thread right here. After decades of waiting for a new dark ride, this is what we're going to settle for?

That said, I have tossed my hands up in the air and simply accepted the fact that we are getting something like this at Cedar Point in the near future. OK, "fact" may be a strong term, but it seems 99% certain.

The only positive I am holding onto is that Iron Reef seems to be a vast improvement (going off of reviews), and I am holding out hope that this trend continues by the time it reaches Sandusky.

Unless there is some shift in future plans, it's on its way (according to Ouimet-on-the-midway).

When the dark ride arrives at CP, I think we are all going to be surprised by how good it is. I see Wonder Mountain as a sloppy copy. Cedar Fair will perfect the dark ride before they invest in the one for CP. I would like to see a story that involves all of the coaster mascots.