5 Car Train in Testing???

Jeff said:
Actually, I then would need to wonder if there's some strange requirement in the program that requires you to always run trains in multiples of two. Hey, it could happen!
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Jeff
Yeah, I thought about that too.. but that seems very strange.. I mean if they have an issue with a single train would they have to remove the train with the issue AND a perfectly good train? Sounds like a bad design.. I'm sure they would have thought about it.. but maybe it has something to do with each train getting a certain number of runs in for the State to OK it? I mean if they take one train off and want to add it on later in the middle of the season maybe it'd be too difficult to work it in? Just some speculation..

*** This post was edited by Marcus 4/29/2003 2:57:41 PM ***

Maybe they're taking one car from each train to surprise us with a 7th rainbow colored train ;)

Here's a pictures of them testing with only 4 cars Click Here It looks way to short.

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CP Coaster Guide

Marcus said:

.. but maybe it has something to do with each train getting a certain number of runs in for the State to OK it?

I heard somewhere that there is a requirement to run trains in pairs, I forget where though, and I don't know if it is credible.

If it is a train problem, I bet the launch contoller has to be programmed to expect a certain mass. If 5 trains had 5 cars and one had 4, it's possible that the launch programming can't be adjusted on the fly and automatically.

I would still put my money on the problem being a negative G force problem on the top hat however.

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*** This post was edited by Pete 4/29/2003 4:03:28 PM ***

I would still put my money on the problem being a negative G force problem on the top hat however.

So they tune the launch speed until Neg. Gs are right? If they can launch 4, they can do 5..
*** This post was edited by Marcus 4/29/2003 4:06:01 PM ***

TopThrillDragster03 said:
Here's a pictures of them testing with only 4 cars Click Here It looks way to short.

I agree, it looks way to short and it almost looks really dumb with a short train like that. But those are awesome pictures!!

There not going to put 1 more car on each train to make people happy .

I wouldn't expect a 'pairs' requirement, although that would simplify the operation a bit.

But think for a moment. Assuming that there is a problem with only one (of 30) cars...you would indeed expect that capacity would suffer less if they removed one train (16 seats) instead of one car from each train (24 seats).

But consider this: Assuming that the launch system functions properly, what is the next biggest problem Cedar Point needs to address, operationally, with that ride? I'd say that working out the exact timing requirements for 6-train operation has to be pretty high on their priority list...and the only way to work that out is to have six operating trains. Even if they have to be four-shortened.

Just more idle speculation. The real answer will come out when the ride opens and we get to see how many loading aisles there are in the stations.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I think when looking at the station that the last two rows in the first section for loading are two far down for the train. They look like they line up with the engine and the spoiler.

I noticed that too forcedude. The rows in the station are definately made for a 5 car train.

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-Chris Woodard
"If you're standing in an uncomfortable position, that means you are in the right position because you are riding Mantis!" - Mantis ride op doing spiels on closing day.

I did not expect a response claiming to know details from the Red Cross, but I still went ahead and emailed them about the 4 cars instead of 5. I asked if something was wrong, and if there was whether it would be fixable. This is the response I received...

"There is nothing wrong with Dragster. They are just being careful until they are sure that more then 12 [4] cars will run smoothly."

Whether this is the truth or not I do not know. I am not saying the the Red Cross is lying, maybe they just have not been let in on everything else. I can see this truly being the case. Maybe they thought with it being a new ride with a new crew everything including the crew needed to be broken in. With two cars missing, that is 8 less people the crew have to worry about getting situated. Maybe Cedar Point wants to make sure the crew gets a routine down and everything under control. The last thing they would want is terrible stacking. If the crew was overwhelmed enough the capacity could actually get to be extremely lower than what it should be. These are just my current thoughts...
*** This post was edited by forcedude04 4/29/2003 11:26:03 PM ***

Remember when MF opened they had problems with the blocks, since they are running 6 trains they are having problems with having blocks cleared and by making the trains 4ft shorter its easier to clear the blocks.

Just more fuel for the fire.

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Out of all the speculation I've read about the 4-car trains, I believe the blocking issue appears to be the most logical reason they decided to run with 4-car trains, at least for the time being. Six trains is a lot for a ride this short to handle, so it would make sense to shorten the trains until all blocking issues have been ironed out.

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Launching for the GP in T-minus 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5 days... (my GTTP sig)
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P.S. - TO --> enough power TO launch a 5-car train
TOO --> TOO short
TWO = the number 2
*** This post was edited by Kevin Lehman 4/30/2003 12:49:58 AM ***

Can anyone here even confirm if they do actually have 6 different colored cars around. Maybe there was some extreme mixup in shipping.. but I highly doubt it.

Who knows.

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Ryan McCanimal
Webmaster of Thrillgallery.com
"eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"

Hasn't it already pretty much been established that there was a problem with ONE car on ONE train. . .so all the trains were temporarily modified? (Because, think. . .: if one train had ONE car missing. . .how would people wait in line, if 5 of the 6 trains had 5 cars, and then 1 train had only 4? Those people waiting in that line would be screwed. I'm sure that's not the only reason that they had to be modified [the matching pairs idea seems logical as well], but still.) I'm sure that CP will eventually say officially "what's up. . ." but at the time, from what I have read and heard, this seems to be the case.

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The running trains in pairs seems to make sense because if you read in the construction dairy from Rob Decker

http://www.topthrilldragster.com/public/inside_park/rides/thrill/ttd/specs/diary/index.cfm?diaryid=6

The trains will be loaded in sets of two. It seems like it would make sense to have one train waiting to luanch. One train on the course and two in load and unload. If they just took off an entire train it seems like it might screw the process up. And like it has been said earlier the ride ops need to learn to keep six trains moving. It will be even harder once they get all the cars on the trains. That is more people to go through and check their seats and adjust anything they may be doing incorrectly.

Forgive me if I am wrong. This all made sense in my head and I am afraid it came out as babble.

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Soak City West Crew Guard 2002
Soak City Guard 2003

Since the trains are operating in pairs and expected to launch one every 30 seconds, this gives the ride hosts 1 minute to load 2 trains. They will have to load 24 people in around 1 minute or unload 24 people in about 1 minute. If the trains were 16 passanger trains this number would be 32 passangers in a minute, which is very possible and is done on MF everyday. MF seats 32 passangers and the ride time after clearing the lift is around 1 minute, usually the ride hosts only have around 1 minute to load these trains and they do so with time to spare. Thus TTD should have no problem loading and unloading in a timely fashion, that is why the station and blocking system is designed the way it is. Weather or not this blocking system is operation properly yet, that's a different story. I would imagine the change in capacity is related to a problem with either one specific train or to the positioning of longer trains in the blocking system correctly without triggering any unwanted emergency stops of any kind.

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Opening Day, just a few long days away!

When I toured the construction, I was told the trains would be run in pairs, and that it couldn't run less than 4 trains at once. Until I see it behaving differently, that's what I'm going to believe.

Also, when I was there(in early April), the 5 car trains had been fired as far as half way up the tower in testing.

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-Chris Woodard
"If you're standing in an uncomfortable position, that means you are in the right position because you are riding Mantis!" - Mantis ride op doing spiels on closing day.

According to local news...

The issue that caused the trains to be temporarily shortened has something to do with the brakes. Apparently the trains were still traveling too fast when they reached the first set of kicker wheels at the end of the brakerun.

Since magetic brakes (obviously) can't bring the train to a complete stop, these tires should be used only to slow the train down those last few miles per hour (see: MF's operation) Apparently this wasn't the case for TTD, though.

By shortening the trains you now have less weight and, therefore, less momentum to burn off. Once stronger magnets arrive from Sweden and are installed the trains will have their fifth cars added again.

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James Draeger
-Captain Sarcasm
*** This post was edited by Draegs 5/1/2003 12:36:32 PM ***

Good I can stop crying now! ;)

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Rachel: Hi Pheebs.
Phoebe: Hi!
Rachel: Hi! I just want to apologize. I’m really sorry I was a baby.
Phoebe: That’s ridiculous Rachel, we were all babies once. . .Oh, you mean today!
Rachel: Yeah.