2016? Who Cares! It's All About 2017 to 2030!

Remember that 1:36 is dispatch interval, not unload/load time. Subtract from that time for the train to enter/leave the station and time for the seats to rotate. For Manta to hit its published (on Wikipedia) theoretical capacity of 1,500 PPH, a train must start up the lift hill every 75 seconds. To hit this mark, both stations must dispatch a train every 150 seconds. This leaves about two minutes for unload/load time, which is manageable.

Assuming when Manta is running one station, and dispatch interval is running approximatly 150 seconds, that is about 750 PPH (assuming no empty seats.)

Of course CP could install a flyer with dual stations so that capacity is increased. They could have built Valravn with dual stations to improve capacity. But they didn't, presumably because they couldn't justify the cost, not just the cost of building a dual station, but also of staffing one. Dual stations basically have the staffing cost of two coasters. So they'd be getting one for the price of two.

This is not to say that CP would never install a flyer, but installing one is more difficult to justify from an ROI perspective.

Flyers just aren't my cup of tea -- I'm afraid I don't understand the enthusiasm for them. But that is just me.

The first time my pal Mark and I rode the Superman coaster at SFGAm, he dubbed it Superman Ultimate Proctology Exam, I agreed, and that was the one and only time either of us rode the ride.

I think just based on physiology or ergonomics or whatever flyers have a limited audience. Pretty much anyone who can handle the dynamics of a coaster can also sit in a chair. But those same people may not be able to... lay or whatever in a flying coaster train. That same constraint limits what a flying coaster can do, element/force-wise.

In other words, it's a coaster built for teenagers/young adults.

It's not that I can't 'assume the position' ... it's just that I didn't like the position.

Yeah, "not be able to" should have instead been "not want to" in my post.

You should see my biceps after a ride on a flying coaster. Something about nothing between my face and the ground says "Push! It's the only thing that will keep your fat ass in this thing!" The reality is I'm pushing against the restraints, so if it goes I'm still going with it. In general I find them exhausting. I've been on 3 Vekomas (clones) and 3 B&Ms (2 clones) and didn't care for them much.

Except- Manta. I thought for some reason it, over the others, was comfortable and the layout was unique and thrilling. It was also rather scenic. I was at Sea World on a very slow day and it was a walk on all day, so I took advantage of that with multiple rides, surprising even myself. Once or twice I took the time to take in all that was the aquarium/queue and it was awesome.
Tatsu is on my bucket list, if and when I get to that park again I shan't miss it. It looks very thrilling.

Do I think CP will or should get one? I suppose it's a possibility for someday, but if so I see it as a parking lot coaster. Maybe back there near CP Shores or along the lake by Magnum. Sea Gull themed.
Ok, now I'm just being silly.

Of the three Superman flyers, SFOG has by far the best one. I say that not because of the duel stations (I have never been there on a busy day), but because unlike the other two, it is not a parking lot coaster. Superman Ultimate Flight was designed for the hilly terrain of SFOG, that is why the other two have such weird elevation issues.

If Cedar Point would ever build a flyer, the only design request I would have for a flyer is a double corkscrew.

PS- If the parking lot is torn up and grass is planted, but no substantial grading changes are done, it is still a parking lot coaster.

redsfan said:
Nope. Your wrong. Go to KI and ride firehawk. Then go and ride Banshee or Diamondback. There is no such thing as crazy high capacity on a flyer. Cedar Point isn't any more capable than any other park on the planet. They hire and contract work from the same pool as everyone else. Never happen. I'm talking crazy high capacity. Not that Cedar Point will or won't get a flyer. But I will never wait in the line. KI has had the waittimes posted on interactive maps around the park for 2 years now. And Firehawk is always the longest wait.

Maybe it would be a good thing if CP built one though. As that would draw more people into the never ending que that is a flyer. And draw people out of the arest of the lines. Where I would be.

You got it all wrong! I am not talking about Vekoma flyers, I am talking about B&M's. Everyone knows firehawk/nighthawk have awful capacity, but they have a different loading process than B&M's and don't have 2 stations. I would never want a Vekoma flyer at Cedar Point. B&M flyers with dual stations and a good crew, like a Cedar Point crew on the other hand do have very good capacity!

Um, Firehawk definitely has two stations. They use them too. And it's awful.

Nighthawk, I'll give you. That doesn't have two stations and it's awful too.

What I don't understand is the difference in loading. Like, I understand that the flyers for B&M you sit down and the train lifts into position (maybe? I've never actually been on a B&M flyer). But the Vekomas have the vest restraints and the bars that lower into position as you're laying down. I can't imagine either process being faster or slower...

Dual stations, as stated above, requires almost double the staffing. Why install a coaster that require twice as many people to operate?
And that for marginal capacity increase?
KIs flyer has a dual-station and it's painfully slow even with a CF crew.

^Well..it's also slower because it's a KI Cedar Fair crew.

It wasn't nicknamed Diamondstack for a few seasons for no good reason.

A flyer will sacrifice the space and resources for that inevitable "Meso-coaster". A Meso-coaster is classified as a coaster with a height/drop 500' or greater. Cedar Point terminology of course.

Oh, is this the meso-coaster a new attraction in dinosaurs alive? 😂
Or is it part of your McDonald's Happy Meal?
Or are you drinking a bit too much?

Sparty42 said:
What I don't understand is the difference in loading. Like, I understand that the flyers for B&M you sit down and the train lifts into position (maybe? I've never actually been on a B&M flyer). But the Vekomas have the vest restraints and the bars that lower into position as you're laying down. I can't imagine either process being faster or slower...

The B&M process is actually about 60 seconds faster. For some odd reason, I am not sure exactly why, but the Vekoma trains need an extra step to happen when being lowered to the lying down position that the B&M's don't have. I'm not an engineer, so I don't understand the detail, but it is something about the Vekoma trains and how they lower into the flying position that makes the process considerably (in loading terms) slower.

CP FLYIN said:

I'm not an engineer

Wow, that's a shock—with all of the totally-not-outlandish ideas you've been posting since you joined, I was beginning to think otherwise.

Because it's better for your brain if it is not rapidly rushed towards the floor. B&M elevates your feet, which are much less sensitive to accelerations.

Speaking of B&M, I wonder if any work has been done on the lateral rotation idea for loading? I remember seeing a patent years ago.

Do you mean so the seats of the train are facing towards the loading gates/queue and perpendicular to the direction of the track, and then when loaded the seats turn 90 degrees and face forward like normal??

Never heard anything like that!

Sounds cool...

Imagine the prone position being like laying on your side, then rotate the seats so your feet are near the ground, and the front of the train is to your left, with the track behind you.

The downside would be the single-sided loading/unloading, unless unloading was done on a separate platform.

Everything sounds cool to you kid.