The more I think about it the MORE I hate PREMIER and what they are doing to the parks across this country. Don't get me wrong I am thrilled to have a B&M and CCI a half hour away from my house. Am I going to go to GL more next year, probably not, I will always stay true to the PO!NT.
The way premier is dumping money into these parks is disgusting. Why not have a BIG PICTURE set up on where you want the park to be in 2, 5, 7, or 10 years down the road. Set up a big picture and follow that. I think they are doing WAY to much too soon. In the short term period of one or two years its going to help the park, but in the long run( big picture) its doing more harm than good.
So you are adding three new coasters in one year to a small park. Those three coasters could be signature rides at any other park. If they want to dump a ton of money into a park thats great. I'm all for that but do it over time instead of all at once and you will probably see that your return on your investment will be better. Why not open the park in 2000 with general capital improvements to the park, and a new coaster. Then the next year add the new water park. A year after that add the big B&M. Then the following year work on the kiddie rides to keep families coming back. Then the year after that add a the big LIM. So in a five or six year span they add all of these attractions. That in turn gets people to come back to the park, increases attendance over the years, and brings in more repeat guests. Instead of having one giant hike in ticket prices increase it steadily over time and with the increaded attendance you will see a greater return on your investments. Jeff brought up the POINT that it will be years now before we see any other major attractions to the park.
I can imagine that the park is very far behind and half of the new attractions won't even be ready by opening day, or if at all if the park is lucky. Premier is really only doing the meme??? ?? ??? ?????????? ????????? ? ????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ????????????? ???????? ???? ?????? ??????????? ??? ? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? ??? ?????? ???????? ?? ? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?? ????????????????? ?????? ?????? ? ???????? ?? ??? ?????????????????????????????
Amen brother! I totally agree. Dumping alot of money into a park and adding three major coasters will only help the park in the short run. Just look at CP. They add a major attraction every 2-3 years. Because of this, we keep coming back year after. I hate the way Premier adds their attractions. They add all there rides in one year and don't add anything big for years. CF does in gradually over the years.
One final thought. Premier is screwing up the park. It's like destroying 110 years of history. The name sucks too!
*** This post was edit by Eric Cartman on 12/8/99. ***
I'll be the first to admit, I'll be making some stops after work for the first part of the season, particularly before the kiddies get out of school. I've been dying to get on a floorless, a CCI and I actually like the one LIM ride I've been on.
However, I tend to imagine that my visiting habits to the park will be representative of many people in the area. There will be so many new rides there that I'll hang out a lot this year, but late in the season, not to mention next year, I'll be so fed up with the traffic that I won't go anymore. When there's nothing new the next few years, why should I go back? I can go to Cedar Point instead where I can expect something new, if minor, and some kind of big deal the year after.
Now look at it from the once-a-year park crowd. You've got one park that has more to do than one day will allow, and another with a half-day's worth of rides. I would pay the extra few bucks.
This isn't even considering the traditional feel and culture of Cedar Point. GL had some "traditional" feel to it, but that's gone with the addition of Batman and Loony Toons.
And have you heard about that 310-foot coaster Cedar Point is building? I might be a coaster whore, but CP is still my pimp (that's a bad analogy, I know).
In my opinion, I have to agree with everyone here, especially Dan, who pointed out that they should span the investments over a few years. I anticipate that the return on their investments to SFO may run them into the red. Think about it.. Add all these new rides, combine with heavy advertising, and do NOTHING as far as planning & development.
Did they even stop to consider all aspects of planning these investments? How can you expect to triple your attendance to the park and do very little in preparation for it (i.e., re-develop traffic patterns to the park, parking, hotel accomodations, etc...) Judging from what I have been reading over the past couple days, they are doing more to piss off the residents of the Aurora and Streetsboro with their lack of planning then they are hyping up their new investments!
It's kinda like some executive sitting in some plush office, or on his golf cart just deciding to dump all this capital and expect to gain on a big return! Wake up and smell the red ink, Premier! You just don't get the POINT!
Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero-1
From what I understand, never being to a Premiere park myself, is that they are some of the dirtiest parks, and have some of the worst employees working there. I am talking the kind of employees that Cedar Point would not want working for them. CP is a world class amusement park that prides itself on being clean, tidy and having some of the best damn employees around. yeah some of them can't speak english too well, but hey, it comes with the territory. I don't think that SFO will be that big of a competitor to CP because if things hold true with what you guyssay about Premiere parks being well to say the least disgusting and staffed with the worst of the worst, then well long live Cedar Point.
Visit Dave and Jen's Cedar Point webpage
To respond to what Dan said I think (hope) that is what they are doing to Darien Lake, by adding big rides over a couple of years or so, even if they don't add a new ride this year that only means people will appreciate Superman even more, and if the rumored B&M stand up comes to reality in 2001 it will be more appreciated because it is the only B&M in NYS and is the only ride added that year.
Cheese--The employees are horrible. The one time I went to GL I was riding the rullette wheel (like Swabinchen sp?) and the operator was sitting there smoking a cigar. Fact I hated being at this park so much, I only stayed for about 3 or 4 hours. Luckly I got my tickets free. The only time money comes out of my pocket for a park is if it's CP.
At the dawn of the new millennium they all bowed down to CP realizing they lost the war.
You guys don't need to take this so personal. I mean I like Cedar Point as much as you guys do and I would go Cedar Point anyday. But you guys don't have to rag on Six Flags. So just get a grip. I mean just look on the bright side we can have 3 great Amusement Parks to brag about. Don't get me wrong though, Cedar Point will always be better then Six Flags Ohio, so we don't have to rag on Six Flags because were scared that it might become better because it never will. So what I'm suggesting is to greet the new park instead of making fun of it.
Dan you stated my point perfectly. Premier is just throwing money at TPFKAGL,and does NOT have a long term plan. Does anyone else find it strange that while they annouced 4 coasters (notice NONE ARE RECORD BREAKERS) at the press conference, there was/has been very little detail about each ride? Think back to July 22, (a day that will forever bring fond memories) what if CP or CEDARFAIR just announced "we are going to build a coaster which is pretty big!"
Also, I agree with you Dan... the annouced opening day is May 5 (must be opened week-ends in May as has been in the past few years) I will be stunned if everything is finished and running by that date.
We don't rag on Six Flags because we are scared. The problem with Six Flags is they try to do it with "smoke and mirrors". Hey 6 flags, please don't insult me by spending "the largest capital investment in a REGIONAL amusement Park" and expect me to become a visitor. SPend some money on the day to day operation of the park. Go visit CP and see how it is done RIGHT.
Go back to an earlier post of mine.
You can go to a MINOR league baseball game and see baseball being played, to see it done well & right visit the MAJOR league.
Hey I hate Geauga Lake, or Six Flags, or whatever it is called now, but maybe we should look at it from this stand point....We know we have the coaste Capital in the world in our back yard. Maybe this will cause CP to open their eyes a little, and realize that they might not have it all anymore. Hopefully this will cause them to maybe take some risks and put a little bit more money into the park then they normally would have, in the long run this could benifit us with better rides, more capitol improvements, and for the employees, better wages!
*** This post was edit by MF2000 on 12/9/99. ***
*** This post was edit by MF2000 on 12/9/99. ***
I don't think anyone here is worried that Geauga Lake, er, that park with the new stupid name, is going to take any thunder away from Cedar Point. Like Janice said in the Sandusky Register, CP is spending $46 million and $27 million of that is for one ride, the rest mostly for resort enhancement (including the marina). Tim's analogy is perfect... it's about playing in the majors.
The Six Flags/Premier bashing is perfectly justified by anyone who has been to even one or two of their parks. They just don't get it.
For example, perhaps we're spoiled, but ride capacity is a real issue, especially in the peak of the hot summer. I hate standing in line when it's hot. People stink, I get irritable, and I want to ride (of course there are certain "sights" that keep me somewhat distracted). At Cedar Point, Mantis aside, it's obvious that they're dispatching rides as fast as the ride will allow. Watching the Raptor and Magnum crews in action was like watching a fine-tuned machine last year. Now go to Darien Lake's Superman, and watch them stack TWO trains constantly. How could you not have a train loaded before the other one returns?
Geauga Lake is far worse. Some of you might remember my horror stories there. A Big Dipper train overshoots the station because the two (yep, only two) ride ops are too busy flirting, the guy at the controls of Serial Thriller is busy chasing line jumpers, too many people on the crowded platform and someone gets pushed in front of a train, a Wolf Bobs op is napping in the corner... the list goes on and on and on. They're pathetic, plain and simple.
The same lack of standards applies to park cleanliness, restrooms, etc. As long as their packing people in, they don't care. However, and they need to consider this, if they can't maintain a high level of service in an increasingly competitive market, the lackluster service is going to come back and bite them in the ass when people start to realize how much better Cedar????? ?? ?? ??? ?? ????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?? ??? ?????
See, this is an area where Jeff and I have radically different experiences.
Every time I have been to Geauga Lake and Darien Lake, it has been obvious to me that the people who owned and operated those parks were ex-Cedar Point people. Walking up to the Viper and Predator and Mind Eraser platforms at Darien Lake and not finding any queue gates was a big tip-off. This season at Geauga Lake, I noticed that the Big Dipper, Raging Wolf Bobs, and Double Loop crews were pushing people through literally as quickly as possible. Raging Wolf Bobs was running only one train, but I clocked its time in the station at 22 seconds, which is *faster* than a typical Cedar Point crew (even Gemini running 6). Double Loop was running two trains and stacking for less than five seconds per cycle (they wouldn't have been stacking if the crews were using the time-honored and dangerous practice of kicking the shoulder-bar pedals as the train entered the station). I thought the Big Dipper crew was goofing off as they had five crewmembers working and only one train running (and it was terribly crowded!). And the Serial Thriller simply had major problems, reminding me of the Top Gun crew at Canada's Wonderland (one of the worst crews I saw all summer).
Geauga Lake has problems with clientele, and to a lesser degree with employees. They're a local park, so they get local help, and in areas such as Cleveland, Cincinnati, Akron, Toronto, Batavia, or (in particular) Louisville, it seems that is to be expected. Geauga has had its problems; grime, gum, and graffiti that lasts from year to year is another. But to be honest with you, the only thing about yesterday's announcement that I really really don't like is that dumb name.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
(who is having trouble getting thoughts composed as work is getting in the way, and with this crummy edit window it's really hard to see what he's already written...)
Well being an employee of an amusement park, namely the greatest on the damn planet, I find it hard to go to other parks around the country and be a guest like any other person that might be going to one. The things that you look for on a website or at an ISP when you are in the industry or at a different restaurant than your own when you are in the restaurant field... the little things. This summer I had the fortunate time to get off from Cedar Point and take a little trip down to Busch Gardens in Williamsburg, VA. What I saw there was a relatively clean park, almost to the scale of CP, and clean and AIR CONDITIONED bathrooms! No projectile diarhea (sp?) there, but the thing that I did see that was missing was world class service from not only the Food Service employees, but generally the entire staff of the park. It didn't seem that anyone was enjoying their job. At least at CP if an amployee isnt having a good day, they can put on a fake smile. At BGW, i saw nothing. There were several times that I went to a food stand and would get something and I felt like the employee there working was going to rip my freakin head off and all I was asking for was some soda! The ride hosts were just going through the motions. One thing that I saw that i DEFINATELY didnt like was that there was NO ONE measuring people at any of the rides. On Aplengeist when you get to the station there is a sign on a pole that is at 54". Good idea, except the sign is the same color as the pole. I rode the thing 3 times before I saw the sign! I saw probably 5 or 6 kids that were definately not 54" and were probably pushing the 48" level get on and ride it. Well ok, enough rambling by me. Let me say one more thing. Being at other parks and being at Cedar Point makes me appreciate why I worked at the best amusement park in the world, and not some craphole like BGW or Geauga Lake.
Visit Dave and Jen's Cedar Point webpage
...well I for one don't share your views CP is a good park and actually I haven't been to a park I didn't like but you guys are being flat out snobs. This If it ain't CP it ain't sh*t attitude is totally a turn off. fist of the freaking season is 5 months away and everyone in the high opinion knows everything and it's all bad...give me a break. I went to CP in `98 and liked the park thought it was clean but the lines blew!!!!!!!!!!!! but I was there and I know how to have a good time and enjoy myself. the same holds true in most of my visits to parks ANYWHERE...guess what there is going to be lines so get used to it!!!!!!! just because you think the coaster crew can shave 3 seconds here and 2 seconds there...GIVE ME A BREAK AND STOP WHINING !!! the other parks I've been to were for the most part just as clean as CP. ok now that I'm on the sh*t list....Have a nice day and just enjoy the wind in your face
The same thing happens at GL Cheese. With the signs. Most of the time someone is there though. The biggest thing that got me mad when I was there in 1998 was of how no effects worked and how bad of shape the park was in. Even more surpriseing was Serial Thriller. Apparently the ride was shut down for 4 day plus 1/2 the day when I was there. Even more surpriseing was a big problem I found that would NEVER happen at Cedar Point. I want to see what you guys think about this. Some ladie lost her hat and keys on Serial Thriller. After her ride she and her friends proceeded under the ride to retreve the lost items. Well the ride operators simply yelled down to them to get away from there. Unfoprtunetly the people did not understand English. Then they called security. One security guard shows up (think only 20 would show at the point). Later a secound shows up and then they just decide to shut down the ride and leave. kicked everyone out of the line and closed the ride. they just left and closed the ride becouse the people didn't understand English. I guess they might not be trained to deal with foreign guest but still that was the wroung way to go. Oh and then about 30 people started yelling at the ride ops after the security guard left and one started a fight with one of the ride ops. Security shows up and tries to arest them. Mean while they are still walking under the track and apparently one of them fell in the lake! (slipped no big deal. They didn't even notice or care. The guest complained to the manager and got really mad. At this point I left.This was the worst park I have been to untill PKD (another story, another time). I will only go back to ride those new coasters but will probably not go back again unless they get their act together. I want to now how you CP employees would respound to something like this.
AKA: bodyin thewaterball fountain.
We're not SNOBS!!!! (at least most of us aren't!) We just happen to be fans of what WE think is the greatest place on Earth!!
True, we may be opinionated at times, but we, the few, the proud, the CPPlacer's have a certain devotion to our own little slice of heaven on earth.
This is a community where we get together and talk about everything and anything related to Cedar Point (and that does include the competition) sometimes we even talk things to death... But this is our outlet to pass the winter months away.
IMHO, if you don't like what is discussed here, well, you have plenty of options. And I, for one will definitly be enjoying the wind in my face at 92 mph, as I plummet off the crest of MF!!!
Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero-1
*** This post was edit by Seven-of-9 on 12/9/99. ***
What does being a snob have to do with the experiences we've had? Certainly you're not calling people names because they are sharing their experiences?
We all have different experiences, as Dave has illustrated, and that's fine. When I travel four hours to go to a park, I want to have a good experience. When conditions would otherwise encourage an easy-going day (i.e., a slow day at Darien Lake), you can bet that being there with several Magnum girls will lead to "Bang bang... ready ready" jokes on the Superman platform after the only running train sits there for a minute.
I might be a jerk, but a snob I'm not, only a consumer with high expectations in the face of rising amusement park admission prices. If you tend to disagree, that's groovy, but don't start calling people names.
Everyone should just cool down about SFO. What's wrong with it? It will never replace CP, so stop complaining. Look at it this way, Ohio is now the coaster capital of the USA. SFO is a big improvement over GL. They ripped out a lot of crap and replaced it with what appears to be some quality rides. Hey, if CP were getting these rides, you would be excited...especially the floorless and the woodie! What's so wrong about having more places to go in the summer now? GL wasn't worth two cents to me, other than Serial Thriller, but now I'll give it a chance. If I like the new rides, I'll go back. But CP will always reign!
On another note, I've been to BGW many times and find it the most beautiful park I have been to. CP still rules in rides, but BGW does not deserve to be ripped! They don't have many rides, but the ones they have are fantastic! Bottom line, CP is the best park in the world, but there are other good ones too. Relax, enjoy them!
*** This post was edit by net on 12/9/99. ***