Why can't MF run 2 trains at the same time?

My friend and I were talking about this yeasterday, why can't MF have to trains on the track at the same time. Is the fact that there's no MCB or is it that with the 2 stations it makes it even slower to load and unload, this in conjunction with the fact that the train gets up the hill so fast just makes it impossible to get 2 trains out at the same time. And yes, I DID look for another topic, but could not find one.

Thanks in advance

Ok, before everyone starts hounding on you, if you've noticed how the timing works.  By the time the train in the unload station can roll into the load station, gates open, people get in, sit down, and for the crew to check the seat belts, the other train has already topped 300 ft, and is falling at well over 70+ mph for the majority of the trip with all the hills included.  Most of the time, when intervals are hitten, the crews signals "clear" just as the train is passing the bunny hop next to the station.  Just from a timing standpoint, there is not enough time to make it work.  From a mechanical standpoint, no way.  Unlike traditional chain coasters, MF can not (or at least should not) be stopped on the hill if the preceding train does not pass a certain point (i.e. blocks).  MF does not have blocks so if a rollback were to occur later in the ride, there is nothing to stop the second train if it has already dropped.  Also, unlike chainlifts, if MF has to be travelling at a higher speed cresting the 300 ft. mark so that it clears the huge hills later on.  If my understanding is correct, this is also why Raptor & Mantis (and others) use weights to control the lift hill speed (so as to deliver a consistent speed thoughout the ride).  If someone can confirm this for me, but wasn't it back in 2000 when MF had a rollback because the cable life speed was a little slow and it threw it off.  Wow, that was long.  Hope it clears it up and if anyone can correct/confirm anything, that would be great.
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Mantis Crew '02 - Where's the unload station at?!? ;-)

P.S.

70+ mph is the average.  I know MF is capable of topping 100+ (which it has)!

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Mantis Crew '02 - Where's the unload station at?!? ;-)

Hey RaptorTwister...Haven't you ever heard .."if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all"?...The same thing applies here...Was your post really needed?...GTTP has moderators and we will move topics if needed..Does it really matter.

DT4EVER..not a big deal but please try to keep topics in the right sections.

Thanks.

To answer your question, though--coasters that have multiple trains running the course are carefully timed (by the ride's designer) and expected to be in a certain 'zone' of the course at a certain time to avoid collisions.  If they aren't, then brakes on the ride will 'set' (stop all the trains) for safety.

One problem--if you have brakes on the coaster course, the rest of the ride has to be laid out so the trains will make it back to the station even if the trains came to a dead stop.  This forces the designer to place the midcourse brakes somewhere fairly high in elevation and make the finale much less aggressive.  Of course, if they try to make the finale as thrilling as possible despite the lower speeds it may wind up too aggressive at full speed...so then they wind up using the midcourse brakes to 'trim' the speed of the train.  All in all, it can add up to dead time on the ride and a pain in the neck to the builder.

Since MF doesn't have midcourse brakes, the trains can rip around at full speed and maneuver overbanked turns at the end of the course.  Of course, that also means only one train is on the course at a time.  But that's why CP built separate entry and egress stations--to compensate for the lack of zones on the ride.

Hope this helps.

 

-'Playa

Is anyone else asking themselves "Where's Rideman's latest thesis on blocking theory?" in this thread?
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Scott W. Short, Rail Junkie
mailto:scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com

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Brian Short said:
70+ mph is the average.  I know MF is capable of topping 100+ (which it has)!

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No, it hasn't, and it's physically impossible. Go here to see why.

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--Greg
My Home
MF count: 52

*** This post was edited by GregLeg1 on 2/14/2002. ***

I have taken Physics in high school as well as college, and completely understand the equations that you used.  Two problems I see:

The first drop is a U shape...therefore the entire train is either going up or going down, but is not completely down at the same time.  Half the train is going up (thus slowing it down) and the other half if going down (thus speeding it up).  This can not combine for an extra 8 mph, but it does hinder it's natural speed.

On hot days in June and July, grease and lubricants (used on the wheels) warms up and loses a majority of its viscosity.  Therefore, the wheels do not create as much friction and thus do not slow the train down as much.

I'm glad to see that GregLeg1 did not try and say that weight was a factor, because it's not and I'm not trying to push it as one.  If I can not make you see that it is feasible for it to happen, then besides the safety issues, why does MF have automatic shutdown at 113 mph?

BECAUSE IT CAN!  hehehe

But who can argue about a ride that goes so freaking fast anyways!  wow!

oh and when you get done riding MF, stop on over to Mantis and give it a twirl!

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Mantis Crew '02 - Where's the unload station at?!? ;-)

Brian, I'm not one to generally be a jerk (shut up Hostyl ;)), but you're totally full of crap. Gravity is gravity is gravity, and nothing on the planet earth will ever go faster than 95.5 mph after falling 300 feet. Not ever.

Furthermore, Millennium Force doesn't measure speed anyhwere but series of prox switches uptrack of the standby brakes, and certainly not the bottom of the drop, the only place where it could ever meet its top speed.

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Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

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Brian Short said:
This can not combine for an extra 8 mph, but it does hinder it's natural speed.

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Right, HINDER, not aid.

The equations I worked with are for pure frictionless freefall -- optimized theory. MF will LOSE, not gain, speed from there when you start factoring in real world factors.

If you can give documented proof, with equations, that show how MF could break 100 mph when it's not even an ideal lab setting that shows it's physically impossible, I'll gladly read it.

(And for the record, Hugh Young, the professor who wrote the text I reference, has read my page and told me it looks good ;) )

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--Greg
My Home
MF count: 52

*** This post was edited by GregLeg1 on 2/14/2002. ***

Well, guess you put me in my place now, huh?  Sorry to create a debate, so anyways!  It really doesn't matter to me anyways, I was trying to explain it as I knew it...but obviously I should just leave the chat to the moderators of this site since opinions are not well received (even if they are the wrong ones).  Sorry if I didn't have all the correct information when I replied, but there is no reason for personal attacks.  Have a great day ladies and gentleman.
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Mantis Crew '02 - Where's the unload station at?!? ;-)

Oh, and lets just remember that CP says 92 so just use that then.  But your original question as to why 2 trains can not be used has been answered.  Maybe we can try a new topic?  But I have no ideas right now.
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Mantis Crew '02 - Where's the unload station at?!? ;-)

We don't attack opinions, but we do back scientific fact. There's a difference.

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Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

I was never making a personal attack, and I'm sorry if you interpreted it that way.  But when a statement can be scientifically refuted, and then the poster tries to back it again ANYWAY in the face of that, naturally that will prompt a reply.

And for the record, I am NOT a moderator on GTTP.

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--Greg
My Home
MF count: 52

How about you look at Blocking theries on Dave's Site
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PKI
D.O.T. crew 2000
Flight of Fear crew 2001-2002

If you have a train out on the course and a train going up the lift, the train on the lift will stop at the top until the train before it enters the unload station.
Also, MF does have blocks. It has 4of them, lift, course to the waiting breaks, unload station and load station.
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John
Magnum Crew 1999 (BEST CREW MAGNUM HAS EVER HAD )
Raptor Crew 2K
Millennium Force 2001
Turnpike Cars/Calypso ATL 2002

*** This post was edited by RaptorboyJohn on 2/14/2002. ***

RaptorBoyJohn, I beleive that the statement was about mid-course block brakes, and not blocks, which we all know that multi-train coasters have numerous blocks.
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PKI
D.O.T. crew 2000
Flight of Fear crew 2001-2002

I am sorry I was not thinking before I typed and if I insulted anyone I apologize btw I deleted that post.

Here's another segment to my question, Did INtamin design the ride this way, or (after testing) did they find out that they could not run 2 trains on the track @ the same time. If so, why would they design it that way? Is it possible they could have designed it so that it was possible to run 2 trains on the track?

first, I don't want anyone bashing on me cause you think I'm bashing on Inamin, cause I know how some of you people are. Just thought I'd get that out there.

Thanks in advance!

It was designed from the start not run more than one train on the circuit at a time. Seeing as how it's, what, 59 seconds total that it's out there, that makes sense to me. Read Dave's blocking article.

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Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"