What is with ALL of the CP hotels closing on Sunday night when the park is still open?

So much expertise here!

The decision to not be open is data-driven, and the data says don't open because the expense won't be recovered by the revenue. The guy who runs Cedar Fair kind of knows the hotel business.

Well, we had brought the thread to a nice, logical end in that regard on page 1, but apparently further expertise was needed.

If Great Adventure's hotel could stay open on Sunday nights, they would already be doing it.

Wait, what were we talking about again?

Yes, tons of expertise. /s Repeating what others said over and over again isn't convincing me anyone here really knows the answer. It's all speculation on all of our parts unless proven otherwise.

Since we have all these experts (sarcastically calling others, experts.. oh the irony) answer some questions for us since we are just humble, simple folk.

1. What data do they look at? Is it attempted reservations, hotels in the area, average hotel bookings nationally or regionally?
2. What is the cost of running the hotel one night at say, 30% capacity? 20% and 50% as well?
3. Cost break down by utilities, and payroll?
4. How many employees for say... 30 people?
5. What was Ouimet's exact statement that said the hotels will never open on Sunday nights?

Genuinely curious.

Thanks!

5. "Not enough people."

I guess the only answer people will believe is that Ouimet is a meany head and sits in his office Sunday nights laughing at all the guests who will not be staying 1 additional night instead of making money.

Why is the simple answer of the incoming revenue does not justify the expense to operate the hotels Sunday evenings into Monday morning seem so unbelievable? Do people honestly think CF doesn't want to make money?

Sometimes I think some people do. I don't get it.

P_J, I don't consider myself an expert on anything except boxed wines :-) but to me, it's just common sense that a money grubbing company like Cedar Fair would be grubbing money on Sunday nights if they thought there was enough there to grub. I'd expect they'd look all that you mentioned and more.

Wolfbob. Wrong answer. No one said anything about Ouimet being mean or feeling insulted because he hasn't let management open the hotel on a Sunday. I won't bite the line you're trolling with. The simple answer you left is just repeating what you heard, but not offering anything concrete data and god forbid people offer up dissenting opinions from the hive.

Noggin, I like your tongue in cheek response about boxed wine. Funny stuff.

Companies leave money on the table all the time for various reasons. It isn't always as simple as revenue, I think it was you (noggin) that said staffing is hard enough and at what they pay their employees, they might not be able to get someone who isn't in school on Monday or at a full-time job. That's so far the only reasonable answer I've heard that isn't "Data says so." What data? That's really all I'm asking, just quantify the answer.

Sorry, but the back handed comments kind of ruin what I thought this place was. Didn't realize everyone think's they're comedians. Forgive me for trying to have some discussion.

I think the term "data" is more than simple numbers (being as that I am a high school economics teacher I would know). Data in this case is the actions of the park over a given number of years. That means, the "data" shown is for the past decade CP has closed its hotels on Sundays that proceed a non operating day. If this was an occurrence only this year, then it would not be good data, but since it has been a commonality for over a decade, there is a pattern meaning it is safe to make an inference about how the hotels are operated. That inference is, if they have closed the hotels every Sunday like that for a long period of time, then that means they feel it is not worth opening. The numbers these corporations use is based on decades of numbers they look at including past capacity during this time of year, total patrons in the park, +/- of the resorts in May, etc. The simple result is CP has been around for 146 years and they have ALOT of numbers to base these decisions off of. No decision by a business will please 100% of the people it affects, but they do not make decisions blindly. Hence the hotel is closed and when they feel it is necessary or profitable to open on these type of Sundays they certainly will then open it

Prawo_Jazdy said:

...they might not be able to get someone who isn't in school on Monday or at a full-time job. That's so far the only reasonable answer I've heard that isn't "Data says so."

Of course they could staff the resort on a Monday. But at what additional cost? And is the total cost justified by projected revenue? They have obviously decided it is not justified. Because they have the data.

That the data can't be presented to you does not mean that it doesn't exist. People close to the park have flatly stated that the park has the data. I don't know why it has to be more complicated than that.

...god forbid people offer up dissenting opinions from the hive.

Rather than some consensus having been reached only due to us being mindless zombies, maybe the consensus has been reached because we're similarly-reasonable people with similar levels of critical thinking skills?

Prawo_Jazdy said:

Noggin, I like your tongue in cheek response about boxed wine. Funny stuff.

Thanks :-)

I think it was you (noggin) that said staffing is hard enough...

i wish I could take credit for that, but it wasn't me.

What data? That's really all I'm asking, just quantify the answer.

I don't presume to have actual data, but I do presume that Cedar Fair does. A company that says "we'll make a tidy profit selling you a dinner plan, and a tidy profit selling you photographs of you, and a tidy profit selling you "free" refills all season long", and so on, is not going to turn around and say, "but we don't want to make a tidy profit selling you a room for Sunday night."

That's what I'm saying, Noggin. We're all presuming and assuming. I was being a bit facetious with my questions, just pointing out that no one person here (unless we have some upper management lurkers posting under pseudonyms, but I highly doubt that) can say with certainty that the data points to anything specific. None of us have actually sat in a meeting worth anything. Just because you get a little early inside info on a ride or something doesn't mean you're privy to any insight on how the place actually works. Even the Shareholder meetings keep a lot swept under the rug. I know, I attend them regularly when I can. They don't tell us anything and I own a large portion of shares (nowhere near a controlling interest). This is something I will bring up next time when I can for real answers.

For all we know, since 2010 when the economy took a turn out of the recession, this may have come up and might be something that is revisited often. We could be months or even just a year away from them opening up a small section for Sunday night stays.

Just trying to break up the hive mind a bit for some proper discussion and not the "let me repeat what that guy said."

Well, considering the park isn't even going to take the suggestions of enthusiasts barking back and fourth, why don't we argue about stuff the actually "matters". Like whether or not Pipe Scream is a roller coaster or not.

Maybe I was being too subtle with my earlier post, but this is literally the same argument we've been mocking billb for over at CoasterBuzz for years after he's ceased posting. At the risk of defending Mr. Dopey Turtle, surely Six Flags' data show that an on-site hotel at Great Adventure wouldn't be profitable... otherwise they would've built one by now.

Seriously, it's the exact same argument. I'm not saying I disagree, I'm just wondering why it was mockable in that case, but now it's cold hard fact and we shouldn't even wonder aloud whether such a thing would work.

The resorts aren't open on Sundays during weekend only operation because the company bought Geauga Lake to close it.

The original poster asked why all the hotels are closing on Sunday night. We then used our hive knowledge to inform said individual that it has, sadly, always been this way, as weekend-only operations means no Sunday-night hotel stays.

It was then correctly pointed out that said policy has an adverse emotional and instrumental impact on guests who traverse a significant distance to visit our lovely peninsula.

That said, despite the discomfort experienced by individuals such as the original poster, the policy stands.

What to make of this quandary? Why would Cedar Point leave so many guests homeless? On the streets? Destined to drag their luggage to and fro from shanty to shanty with only the hope of vacancy to guide them?

Luckily, we are, indeed, a hive. Before I responded I thought to myself "What would Walt and/or Jeff say? What type of response would seem witty (since I want to be a comedian), informative, and yet not ruffle the feathers of any of my fellow bees?"

Ah ha!

It must be that the folks who actually operate the park have a good reason to maintain this policy.

Now, I realize some are asking for data, and I happen to have that data. Unfortunately I also promised not to share it. Sorry. Circle of trust, blah blah blah.

So without data we must rely on thought and reason. While it is possible (if not likely) that there are multiple reasons involved, it seems plausible that the biggest slice of that pie-of-answers has to do with the financial return simply not being big enough on a consistent, reliable basis to keep even a wing of a hotel open.

I would point out, again, that the original poster was successfully assimilated to the hive, and seemed to at least acknowledge that this line of reasoning makes sense. He's now worker-bee 1138 in honeycomb 18, row 5, cell 14 if you would like to ask his opinion.

I think that the majority of people on this forum trying to tell the small minority why the hotels are closed probably translates well to real life. The 5% or so of guests who would stay Sunday doesn't make it worth staying open.

Here is the problem with that, Pete. Though i should preface this with my appreciation of your good contribution to the conversation instead of the usual "Lol!"

How do they know it's 5% or 55%? They don't offer it, so they can't track it if no one can attempt to book.

You really can't look at surrounding hotels and their data, because those hotels are not on the same level in cost or amenities with the exception of Kalahari. That's Apples and Oranges, both fruit, but both different. Sweet v Sour is you will. Which by the way, based on my own anecdotal observations, is pretty damn full on a Sunday night when the park is closed the following day. Actually, one Halloween weekend I was unable to book at Kalahari because they were full on Sunday night (which happened to be closing weekend for Cedar Point).

So ask yourself, does Cedar Point really just say "Eh... Kalahari has this covered, we're good."? If they're cool with me spending my coin elsewhere, great, but that goes against what has been said that they will not leave money on the table.

Sorry, but no one has really done a good job of convincing me they know. Not that I expected that from your standard group of Cedar Point enthusiasts. Just creating discussion.

I read a good book a few years ago about hotel and according to the author the cost to run a hotel only costs about $40 a night. That cost includes cleaning supplies, front desk, electric, housekeeping, etc. It's not that much. Hotels are very profitable even if they have empty rooms. I'd imagine that Cedar Fair could still make money even with very low occupancy rates on Sunday nights but staffing is probably an issue. In order to stay open for Sunday night guests they need staff there on Monday and I suspect a lot of the staff during weekend only operation aren't available on Monday as they are probably in school. That's my guess. Now, it may be possible to keep the hotel open and only the hotel... no Starbucks, Perkins, TGIF, etc and the Park could pull it off but then you'd have people complaining they aren't getting the full service they paid for.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/50569/10-hotel-secrets-behind-front-desk

The book is "Heads in Beds" if you have interest in the hotel industry.

Prawo_Jazdy said:

How do they know it's 5% or 55%? They don't offer it, so they can't track it if no one can attempt to book.

Have they never offered it in the past? Maybe at some point in the past it was available on Sunday nights but there was such a low request that it didn't justify continuing it.