What can a trip to KI teach a CP lifer?

Ok, I know that KI discussion is generally reserved for a different forum, but I'm trying something different here. As someone who's lived most of his life in the shadow of CP, I always like to make comparisons when I visit other parks, to compare and contrast their experience as compared to Cedar Points. As opposed to the done-to-death comparisons of rides, I enjoy observing the operational tactics each park uses and relating the experience to the one I'm most familiar with. "What is CP doing well and what could they learn from their competition/sister parks?"

I have always admired the way Disneyland (although not necessarily Disney World) has presented the guest experience. Yesterday, I made a trip to Kings Island for the first time in twenty two years. I was surprised how much different the two sister parks are in operational terms.

THE GOOD (How KI's guest experience is better) The Point has been a Cedar Fair park since the early eighties. KI only for a few seasons. This shows big time. The selection of family rides at KI was huge. While CP has been steadily divesting itself of the family rides adults and kids can ride together, KI has a lot of these. They even have a dark ride, which CP would be wise to try again. Kinzel didn't have nearly as much time to extract the soul of this park and replace it with tubular steel and dinos.

The attitude of the KI staff is much, much different than CP and I like it. As opposed to CP where the parking nazis will literally jump in front of your moving car to try to direct you to their preferred location, KI parking apparently trusts you to simply locate your own spot. This is nice, as many good spots are available near the front of the lot by mid afternoon.

Secondly, I was carrying a full cup of diet coke and was still able to board the train. At Cedar Point, employees are trained to seek out problems that don't yet exist and forcibly solve them in advance , while at KI the employees are much more laid back. They recite the rules but unless there is a problem, they are less likely to hunt down trouble. Additionally, the games employees are chatty and talkative without being as annoying and aggressive as the CPers often are.

Also, KI seems to put more value on theming. While nothing compared to Disney's, you tend to get the idea that the log ride,the steam trains and the rustic log cabin-style eateries were all grouped together for a reason. Its not much, but it's better than having a Chinese eatery next to a Mexican themed cantina next to a gigacoaster all by a petting zoo, as at CP.

Finally, few, if any tourists from Michigan were visible at KI and no basketballs were incessantly bouncing. (These two may go together...)

THE BAD (How CP's guest experience is better)
Its amazing how much little stuff stands out. CP's rides appear somehow sturdier, and more permanent than most of KI's. From the train to the roller coasters to the flat rides, you get the impression that CP's rides are more meticulously maintained and cared for compared to KI's. Additionally, it's odd how much nicer CP's uniforms are. While the CP employees tend to look down at their "oompa loompa" suits, we noticed many KI employees looking goofy in ill-fitting uniforms. I know it's odd to notice, but one of the KI train staff was wearing overalls that looked like a wrestling singlet. Not a huge thing, but after seeing a bunch of poorly outfitted employees it begins to bother you. CP is much cleaner and fresher looking, especially the restrooms.

These are the things that jumped out at me. I'd certainly be interesting in hearing the observations of others!

If you have fast passes I would go for more hours. Although either way with FP you will get on everything in one day, easily.

So maybe just plan it around the weather :)

I just took my first trip to Kings Island 2 months ago, and I agree with everything you said. I was surprised how different the parks are, and I was pleasantely surprised by KI. The biggest thing I liked about KI over CP are the employees. Every single worker I encountered there seemed genuinely happy and wanted to make everyone's day awesome. While at CP you often encounter grumpy and sometimes even rude employees, everyone was extreme freindly. Some of them I'd even rank as being as friendly as those at Disney.

Granted KI doesn't have as many high thrill rides as CP but I was surprised how much I enjoyed the rides that they have. Diamondback and The Beast are amazing coasters.

I liked KI so much that I plan on going back again next year. Even though I'll always be a die hard Cedar Point fanboy, let me just say that I wouldn't be disappointed if at some point in my life I lived closer to KI than CP. They're both great parks and are so different.

And one more thing: CP's new entrance and GateKeeper flyovers are awesome, but I love the fountain at KI's entrance. And going up in the Eiffel Tower was cool. No longer do I want CP to get another ride observation tower like Space Spiral, but rather something you can walk around and spend as much time as you want at like at KI.

I feel like we have this exact same thread somewhere else.http://pointbuzz.com/Forums/Thread/29750.aspx look through the past threads before starting a new one

Pbmcdoug, welcome to PointBuzz! You'll learn not to post the same question in multiple threads or to create new threads while an answer might already exist in a different thread, but welcome to the community.

^And I completely forgot about that thread too. I really love both parks and it was interesting for a KI 1st timer to compare it to CP.

Folks, I searched and did not find a similar thread in tne archives. if I missed one, I apologize. i still feel its worth discussing and appreciate Ride on 17's thoughts. Mods, if you wish to consolidate threads, and attach my initial post to a different one, please feel free.

I visit both parks, a lot.

While CP clearly has the better thrill ride selection, and a superior location (waterfront peninsula) as opposed to middle of former corn fields, I feel that KI is better in almost every other way.

I could write pages on the differences that I like and don't, but that's the conclusion I have come to.

Yes, the obnoxious incessant bouncing of the basketballs. Get rid of the stupid basketballs! Rant now over.

A trip to Kings Island taught me how bad CP's Popcorn is. Tasteless and bland air pop. Come on CP. I want better popcorn next season!

I'm in total disagreement about the Kings Island employees. When I went two weeks ago, the employees (everyone, not just rides) were very friendly, but they seemed like they just didn't want to be there. The merchandise employee was just wandering around the store taking with one of her (non-work) friends even after we came in. My biggest complaint was on rides though, mainly Beast. The ride ops would just walk very slowly along the side of the train checking the restraint.

The worst thing about Kings Island, though, is some jack*** back in the 70s decided it would be a good idea to make the entire park of asphalt. For someone like me who is a bit susceptible to the heat, asphalt is the worst thing you can have in an amusement park.

I haven't been to KI this season yet, but last year, I noticed the reason we didn't see people bouncing their basketballs all over the place like you see at CP, is because they give you deflated basketballs as your prize. Cedar Point fills a lot of them up with air every morning before opening.

I, however, feel that CP places way more strict rules for the employees to follow than at KI. It would be nice if every 10 people, I didn't have to tell somebody they need to finish their drink before entering the station. Or tell them to quit bouncing their basketball on the platform, even though CP is the one giving inflated balls as their prizes. Or tell them that they can't put their over-sized Jamaican banana man on the shelves or at the exit while you ride. I would love to see more happy employees at CP, and not watch the smiles dwindle off come June.

Back when I was a kid there was no comparison of KI to CP. I thought CP won out in everyway. Today, I prefer KI. What makes KI great, outside of the Diamond Back was there before CF took over. CF has the nasty habit of ripping interesting stuff out of parks they acquire and replacing them with generic rides. i.e. corporatizing the park. I'm really hoping they don't gut Adventure Express, Flight of Fear and Boo Blasters from KI. Instead CF should invest in some new interesting/different ride experiences for CP.

cptedsdisciple2 said:
Also, KI seems to put more value on theming. While nothing compared to Disney's, you tend to get the idea that the log ride,the steam trains and the rustic log cabin-style eateries were all grouped together for a reason. Its not much, but it's better than having a Chinese eatery next to a Mexican themed cantina next to a gigacoaster all by a petting zoo, as at CP.

Kings Island was originally built off the Disneyland model back when it opened in the early 70s. You entered down International Street, much like Disneylands Main Street and headed towards the park's weenie, the Eiffel Tower at Kings Island and Sleeping Beauty Castle at Disneyland. From there, it splits off into 4 VERY distinct lands; Hanna-Barbera, Rivertown, Coney Mall and Oktoberfest. You knew back then when you were in a new area. Unfortunately, it lost a lot of that when Paramount started shoving their movies into the themes and it's only gotten worse with Cedar Fair.

Hopefully new Cedar Fair will invest in restoring some of that.

darkrider68 said:
What makes KI great, outside of the Diamond Back was there before CF took over. CF has the nasty habit of ripping interesting stuff out of parks they acquire and replacing them with generic rides. i.e. corporatizing the park.

I feel Cedar Fair destroyed A LOT of the atmosphere when they added Diamondback. It started with Paramount adding Italian Job - which ruined the peaceful atmosphere the antique cars presented - and then Diamond Back came in, tore out all the trees and the beautiful pond and made it just another noisy coaster midway It used to be a secluded place where I'd to go to relax on a park bench and enjoy the nature. It was my favorite spot in the park and now it's gone forever.

darkrider68 said:
I'm really hoping they don't gut Adventure Express, Flight of Fear and Boo Blasters from KI. Instead CF should invest in some new interesting/different ride experiences for CP.

If anything, they should invest in Adventure Express, Flight of Fear and Boo Blasters. Adventure Express with a Garner Holt refresh would be amazing. Animatronic animals (how about some monkeys to go with the sound effects, a tiger in a tunnel, talking birds in the queue), new effects in the tunnels (lava, caves collapsing, etc.), more trees to hide the other coasters; would go a long way towards making it the Indiana Jones attraction it always strived to be (Indiana Jones music played in the queue). Flight of Fear could get on-board audio to play sci-fi music and star effects could be added all over the track and the building housing it to make it look like you're in space. Boo-Blasters needs refreshed badly. It's soo darn generic now. Either go back to the Phantom Manor with Garner Holt animatronics or find a new IP to make the shooting gallery more interesting.

Also, hopefully they can do something with Tomb Raider. I'm still salty they messed with the theming and eventually removed the whole attraction. I'm praying they can salvage some of that theming for whatever comes next there, as you hardly ever see that level of detail in a seasonal park.

^Before this year....last time I was at KI, was in 1984. So I don't recall the area they destroyed to put BD in. That's too bad. I love the coaster though.

You may know this, what is that sound playing in the cue for Adventure Express? I asked a ride op and she said an Elephant?(!)

cptedsdisciple2 said:
THE GOOD (How KI's guest experience is better) The Point has been a Cedar Fair park since the early eighties. KI only for a few seasons. This shows big time.

That's an interesting comment as the history of Cedar Fair is far different that what you make it seem to be.

Cedar Fair is not a company that purchased CP in the eighties. In the modern era of CP, starting around 1960, there was only one park and one company, Cedar Point Inc. Cedar Point purchased Valleyfair amusement park in 1978. When Cedar Point Inc. changed their business structure to a Limited Partnership, Cedar Fair was formed using the first name of Cedar Point and the last part of Valleyfair. So in essence Cedar Point was always a Cedar Fair park, Cedar Fair was created by the Cedar Point executive team when Cedar Point only owned Valleyfair.

I prefer CP as my stomping ground and was awhile a second home for me, full of many memories.

Being closer to KI though thats my home park, I know alot about it now.

Both parks are great, both have their strong points, and their weak points, it just depends on what you're wanting. I miss CP for the thrills, nostalgia, and epic rides it provides. However I like KI for some of it's thrills, theming, terrain, and just...peacefulness I guess?

The history of both parks (and the same can be said for the now closed GL) is that these parks were once in fierce competition with each other (in the same state) and although they are all now owned by CF, there is no denying CP is the flagship and winner. The history of how KI and GL came to what they are today needs to be understood because a lot of the changes that morphed KI (and whats left of GL) into the CF company involved strong tie-ins with Paramount Studios and Six Flags. And just like the Hatfields an Macoys - there remain some rivalries that exist to some degree even today. If you want to compare parks in the chain - don't ever use CP, because it's the favorite child that has never had to bow to accept any of the policy or operational procedure changes imposed due to ownership and trademarks (and likely never will) no matter even if the other park has a better solution.

Skippy said:
I feel Cedar Fair destroyed A LOT of the atmosphere when they added Diamondback. It started with Paramount adding Italian Job - which ruined the peaceful atmosphere the antique cars presented - and then Diamond Back came in, tore out all the trees and the beautiful pond and made it just another noisy coaster midway It used to be a secluded place where

Paramount (Viacom, technically speaking) started to destroy the atmosphere of Kings Island long before 2005. Starting with:
1993: Top Gun
Mid 90s: getting rid of all the classic International Street atmosphere/merchandise
Late 90s: Lack of Live Entertainment
1999: Action Zone [destroyed Oktoberfest and Adventure Village]
2002: Tomb Raider: has no relevance to Rivertown Theme; destroyed wonderful Log Flume

coolkid said:
Paramount (Viacom, technically speaking) started to destroy the atmosphere of Kings Island long before 2005.

True, but I felt like that pond / antique cars area was at the heart of the park and was the last vestige of untouched opening day Kings Island. That area wasn't even that impressive when it opened but became quite beautiful after about 30 years of maturity. A shame it was torn out quite thoughtlessly for steel and concrete.

darkrider68 said:
You may know this, what is that sound playing in the cue for Adventure Express? I asked a ride op and she said an Elephant?(!)

Couldn't tell ya. I have some the the audio that the park officially released for the ride; like the ambient noise that plays when you first leave the station, the music / spiel that plays in the station and the music that plays in the final lift tunnel. Unfortunately, I have nothing on the queue and haven't been to Kings Island in many years. If I had to guess, it may be the distant train sound effect that is part of the ambient noise when the coaster first leaves the station, with the crappy speakers making it sound like an elephant.

I just hope for the love of God that Cedar Fair doesn't start tearing into the trees that surround the Beast. That and its remoteness is what really makes the ride.

I'm going to give credit to Taft Broadcasting for creating the beautiful park that is Kings Island. I think they had an eye for its atmosphere and planned carefully. Paramount did add some neat rides but the movie theme got kind of nauseating. I agree the Italian Job wiped out a beautiful area, same with Diamondback, though it is a great coaster. Trees and water add so much to the aesthetics of an amusement park. I feel CP has overlooked their importance in many areas of their own park as evidenced by their continued destruction that it does worry me if they will start "expanding" around the Beast. Funny how they did find a new spot for Firehawk. I also think antique cars are a park staple. The Italian job is a very unique and fun ride, but it's not pretty to look at and looks out of place. Too bad they couldn't have figured out a better place to have put it.

Have you read somewhere about the KI park planning because I was also thinking about how it was very much like Disneyland and was trying to find information about it.

Growing up in central Ohio, we went to both CP and KI every year and CP was always my favorite because of the dark rides, fun house, Western Cruise, Frontier Trail/Lift, train/Boneville, trees, and lake. KI had the Scooby Doo, The Racer, Screamin Demon, and Enchanted Voyage boat ride, lots of beautiful flowers but didn't seem to have as much to offer. The trees were still pretty immature, too. KI had the African Safari and a train ride with a show. When the Beast was built, it still seemed KI didn't seem to offer as much as CP but the Beast was my ultimate coaster ride. Anyway, it seems the tables have turned and KI is surpassing CP now in variety of experiences and beauty (mainly Int'l Street) while CP's vision has been let's stick this ride in here sometime after Magnum. Although I think Gatekeeper was well thought out for an impressive entrance. I really hope CF treads carefully on KI's atmosphere on future projects. Banshee isn't much of a threat because it's being built on a previous ride site.

I do thank Cedar Fair for ripping out all of those TVs out of the queues.

Yes, I remember the very tall flume, Kenton Cove Keelboat Canal, it was great.