Virus Impact on CP

Sunday, May 17, 2020 11:13 PM

True. But the Cedar Point maintenance team is a bit different. I'd trust any loved one on any Cedar Point ride even if the yearly inspections were solely done by CP maintenance.

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Monday, May 18, 2020 1:29 AM

PyroKinesis09 said:
Self inspection led to people dying at the Ohio State Fair a couple of years ago.

Actually, no it didn't.

Ohio's amusement ride safety law REQUIRES that a State inspector conduct an inspection on each ride before it is issued an operating permit. The law also requires that the Operator carry appropriate insurance, and operate the ride in accordance with both the State rules and laws and in accordance with ASTM F770-19. Those rules dictate that the ride be maintained and operated in accordance with the Manufacturer's specifications, and requires a daily pre-opening inspection handled by the Operator.

(By Operator I mean the entity responsible for offering the ride to the public, not the dude who makes it go. Technically the term is Owner/Operator but for the purposes of this discussion, Operator makes more sense. I'm not even considering the ride staff here.)

Most if not all insurance carriers will require a third-party inspection by a qualified inspector, presumably working in accordance with ASTM F2974-20. That inspection will usually be more comprehensive than the State inspection, and in many jurisdictions that inspection report can be submitted to the Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ) for licensing purposes. But that's not the model used in Ohio, as Ohio has...or at least had...a team of professional amusement ride inspectors to handle the State inspection. As far as I know, changing that process to allow a third party or Operator inspection would at minimum require an administrative rule change, and I *think* it would require a change in State law.

As for the infamous Fireball incident at the Ohio State Fair in 2017...
That ride had been coming to the Ohio State Fair since Amusements of America bought it new. The ride was inspected by Amusements of America, by their insurance carrier's third party inspector, and by inspectors for the State of New Jersey, where A of A is headquartered. It was also inspected by jurisdictional or third party inspectors in other states where the ride played. When it got to Ohio, the Ohio State Fair was its first visit to Ohio for the season, so the ride was licensed through the usual procedure, and as such it was inspected by Ohio's State ride inspectors. The Ohio State Fair *also* employs a third party inspection firm to look at the rides. So prior to its arrival at the Ohio State Fair, that ride was inspected by Amusements of America, by the Ohio Department of Agriculture, and by the third party inspector hired by the Fair. This is in addition to passing State inspections in New Jersey and other states, AND to passing A of A's insurance inspection.

The failure of that ride was NOT for a lack of professional eyes looking at it. There may have been a problem of none of those eyes knowing where to look for problems, as KMG had not identified an inspection point on the gondola hanger, nor had KMG specified any NDT requirements for the ride. In addition, the nature of the way cracks form similar to the one that caused that ride to fail is that like it or not, it is entirely possible (warning: opinion here!) that the crack had not erupted to the outside of the tubing before the day's operation, but failed catastrophically after a few load cycles. Those kinds of cracks tend to start on the inside surface of the tube and migrate outward through the steel, getting longer and deeper. It's a very slow process (months) until any part of the crack breaks the outside surface, at which point the material will fail quite suddenly.

A lot went wrong with the Fireball, but a lack of inspection was definitely not a problem. Whether all of those inspectors missed something is another matter entirely, but plenty of eyes were looking at that ride before the incident.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
(not a ride inspector, but has a certificate that says he's qualified to be one; also a member of ASTM Committee F24 on Amusement Rides and Devices)



/X\ *** Respect rides. They do not respect you. ***
/XXX\ /X\ /X\_ _ /X\__ _ _____
/XXXXX\ /XXX\ /XXXX\_ /X\ /XXXXX\ /X\ /XXXXX
_/XXXXXXX\_/XXXXX\_/XXXXXXX\_/XXX\_/XXXXXXX\__/XXX\__/XXXXXX

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Monday, May 18, 2020 6:59 AM

RideMan said:

PyroKinesis09 said:
Self inspection led to people dying at the Ohio State Fair a couple of years ago.

Actually, no it didn't.

Ohio's amusement ride safety law REQUIRES that a State inspector conduct an inspection on each ride before it is issued an operating permit. The law also requires that the Operator carry appropriate insurance, and operate the ride in accordance with both the State rules and laws and in accordance with ASTM F770-19. Those rules dictate that the ride be maintained and operated in accordance with the Manufacturer's specifications, and requires a daily pre-opening inspection handled by the Operator.

(By Operator I mean the entity responsible for offering the ride to the public, not the dude who makes it go. Technically the term is Owner/Operator but for the purposes of this discussion, Operator makes more sense. I'm not even considering the ride staff here.)

Most if not all insurance carriers will require a third-party inspection by a qualified inspector, presumably working in accordance with ASTM F2974-20. That inspection will usually be more comprehensive than the State inspection, and in many jurisdictions that inspection report can be submitted to the Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ) for licensing purposes. But that's not the model used in Ohio, as Ohio has...or at least had...a team of professional amusement ride inspectors to handle the State inspection. As far as I know, changing that process to allow a third party or Operator inspection would at minimum require an administrative rule change, and I *think* it would require a change in State law.

As for the infamous Fireball incident at the Ohio State Fair in 2017...
That ride had been coming to the Ohio State Fair since Amusements of America bought it new. The ride was inspected by Amusements of America, by their insurance carrier's third party inspector, and by inspectors for the State of New Jersey, where A of A is headquartered. It was also inspected by jurisdictional or third party inspectors in other states where the ride played. When it got to Ohio, the Ohio State Fair was its first visit to Ohio for the season, so the ride was licensed through the usual procedure, and as such it was inspected by Ohio's State ride inspectors. The Ohio State Fair *also* employs a third party inspection firm to look at the rides. So prior to its arrival at the Ohio State Fair, that ride was inspected by Amusements of America, by the Ohio Department of Agriculture, and by the third party inspector hired by the Fair. This is in addition to passing State inspections in New Jersey and other states, AND to passing A of A's insurance inspection.

The failure of that ride was NOT for a lack of professional eyes looking at it. There may have been a problem of none of those eyes knowing where to look for problems, as KMG had not identified an inspection point on the gondola hanger, nor had KMG specified any NDT requirements for the ride. In addition, the nature of the way cracks form similar to the one that caused that ride to fail is that like it or not, it is entirely possible (warning: opinion here!) that the crack had not erupted to the outside of the tubing before the day's operation, but failed catastrophically after a few load cycles. Those kinds of cracks tend to start on the inside surface of the tube and migrate outward through the steel, getting longer and deeper. It's a very slow process (months) until any part of the crack breaks the outside surface, at which point the material will fail quite suddenly.

A lot went wrong with the Fireball, but a lack of inspection was definitely not a problem. Whether all of those inspectors missed something is another matter entirely, but plenty of eyes were looking at that ride before the incident.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
(not a ride inspector, but has a certificate that says he's qualified to be one; also a member of ASTM Committee F24 on Amusement Rides and Devices)

Good post.

We can make the assumption that rides are inspected 7 ways to Sunday. It would seem that state inspections are redundant and due to the economic crisis waivers can be issued for the larger corporate parks. "Bob's" ramshackle county fair might be an exception if they're not insured (which I cannot imagine).

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Monday, May 18, 2020 9:43 AM
Jeff's avatar

Please do not quote an entire previous post.


Jeff - Advocate of Great Great Tunnels™ - Co-Publisher - PointBuzz - CoasterBuzz - Blog - Music

+14Loading
Monday, May 18, 2020 1:56 PM
XS NightClub's avatar

Kalahari in Wisconsin is reopening May 27.


Sandusky Fan.

+0
Monday, May 18, 2020 2:19 PM

^The one in Sandusky is saying May 22nd, and accepting hotel reservations starting the 24th.

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Monday, May 18, 2020 2:33 PM
djDaemon's avatar

That will likely not end well, at least for Wisconsin, where their daily testing numbers ain't great, and their positivity rate isn't anything worth celebrating either, especially in the context of poor testing capacity. Not that anyone should be surprised by this, given recent political events there. What a terrible situation.


Brandon

+7Loading
Monday, May 18, 2020 7:50 PM

A friend of mine sent me a Snapchat earlier today before the rain came through of Valravn cycling. Also looks like all of GateKeeper’s trains are on the transfer track.


CP Top 5: 1) Steel Vengeance 2) Maverick 3) Magnum 4) Raptor 5) Millennium

+0
Monday, May 18, 2020 8:06 PM
Thabto's avatar

I heard Orion was testing again today in the monsoon. It was reported by someone driving near the park today.


Brian
Valravn Rides: 23| Steel Vengeance Rides: 23| Dragster Rollbacks: 1
2020 Visits: 2 Next Visit: Don't know yet

+0
Monday, May 18, 2020 8:27 PM

According to their website, Kalahari Sandusky opens June 5 (which I'm sure is wishful/tentative). https://www.kalahariresorts.com/covid-19-update/

+1Loading
Monday, May 18, 2020 8:40 PM

kjettski said:

...We can make the assumption that rides are inspected 7 ways to Sunday. It would seem that state inspections are redundant and due to the economic crisis waivers can be issued for the larger corporate parks. "Bob's" ramshackle county fair might be an exception if they're not insured (which I cannot imagine).

There's a problem with that.

The requirements for a State inspection system are enshrined in Ohio law. To change that is going to require legislative action, by the same legislature that just passed rules to *strengthen* Ohio's ride safety program.

These days Ohio is a minor outlier in having its own State inspection program, but that's because it is one of the Nation's older programs, dating back to the mid-1980's when the program was developed in partnership with Cedar Fair, KECO, FunTime and whatever the Showman's Association called itself back then. It's more complicated than "accept affidavits, collect payments, issue permits" as is done in some other States, but that was the system we apparently wanted in Ohio. If the Operators are going to pay large fees to the State to fund a ride safety program, everybody seems to agree that it should be a good one.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.



/X\ *** Respect rides. They do not respect you. ***
/XXX\ /X\ /X\_ _ /X\__ _ _____
/XXXXX\ /XXX\ /XXXX\_ /X\ /XXXXX\ /X\ /XXXXX
_/XXXXXXX\_/XXXXX\_/XXXXXXX\_/XXX\_/XXXXXXX\__/XXX\__/XXXXXX

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Monday, May 18, 2020 11:56 PM
XS NightClub's avatar

Universal Orlando website says they may openAs soon as June 1. City walk already is. Disney springs is opening May 20th. Carnival is booking August cruises out of Florida.

Last edited by XS NightClub, Monday, May 18, 2020 11:58 PM

Sandusky Fan.

+0
Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:41 PM

Here's an article that outlines this discussion:

http://amusementtoday.com/2020/05/greater-ohio-showmans-association...dget-cuts/

I'm not sure if this pertains to Ohio (or amusement parks in general), but in other states it's possible for private firms to do third party inspections. Does Ohio require all rides/attractions to be the Division of Amusement Ride Safety and Fairs?

Otherwise, wouldn't this mean none of the rides can open?

+0
Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:58 PM
Sollybeast's avatar

I went ahead and rescheduled my trip from the end of June to the end of July. I figured even if things are open by late June, it'd take a while to Iron out all the inevitable kinks.

I'm sure it won't be the same. But dangit, I need to get away from everything for a few days by myself every year or I'll go nuts. :P


Proud 5th Liner and CP fan since 1986.

+3Loading
Wednesday, May 20, 2020 7:04 PM

After a pause in April, Six Flags appears to be charging membership dues again as my card was charged the normal amount on the normal day for May for mine and my wife's memberships. I wonder how many of the parks will open in June. The one that my membership is from (Magic Mountain) I highly doubt will be open for a while.

For CP and KI, I think it's still the last week of June at the earliest.


CP Coaster Top 10: 1. Steel Vengeance (25 rides to date) 2. Top Thrill Dragster (179 launches to date, 4 rollbacks) 3. Raptor 4. Millennium Force 5. Maverick 6. GateKeeper 7. Valravn 8. Rougarou 9. Magnum XL 200 10. Gemini

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Thursday, May 21, 2020 6:57 AM

! said:

Here's an article that outlines this discussion:

http://amusementtoday.com/2020/05/greater-ohio-showmans-association...dget-cuts/

I'm not sure if this pertains to Ohio (or amusement parks in general)......


In my opinion the State of Ohio needs to privatize or eliminate ride inspection. It stifles competition and raises costs with no benefit.

Rides are inspected 7 ways to Sunday.

Ohio can however, make insurance mandatory.

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Thursday, May 21, 2020 9:27 AM
Jeff's avatar

Stifles competition with what?

Also, deregulation, that's worked out so well in every vertical business segment, right?


Jeff - Advocate of Great Great Tunnels™ - Co-Publisher - PointBuzz - CoasterBuzz - Blog - Music

+3Loading
Thursday, May 21, 2020 11:54 AM

The 2020 Ohio State Fair was cancelled today

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Thursday, May 21, 2020 1:13 PM
Kevinj's avatar

Go Intamin said:

A friend of mine sent me a Snapchat earlier today before the rain came through of Valravn cycling. Also looks like all of GateKeeper’s trains are on the transfer track.

Convenient it would be sent through Snapchat.


Promoter of fog.

+9Loading
Thursday, May 21, 2020 1:38 PM

Barriers to entry. Increased cost to the consumer with zero benefit.

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