Virus Impact on CP

There most certainly was evidence of person to person transmission. Are you even being serious?

This from WHO on Jan 10:

"

WHO issued a comprehensive package of technical guidance online with advice to all countries on how to detect, test and manage potential cases, based on what was known about the virus at the time. This guidance was shared with WHO's regional emergency directors to share with WHO representatives in countries.

Based on experience with SARS and MERS and known modes of transmission of respiratory viruses, infection and prevention control guidance were published to protect health workers recommending droplet and contact precautions when caring for patients, and airborne precautions for aerosol generating procedures conducted by health workers"

Then there's folks like the guy from Wuhan who works for my wife. He was telling her back in December about how bad the outbreak was (which was not reported by China) and how the local government was attempting to cover it up.

So how is the wonderful NYT so incompetent as to say there is no evidence of transmission? It's a total failure of investigative journalism, most likely due to being far too busy trying to assist in the overthrow of a duly elected president (who broke no laws BTW).

Shane Denmark said:

While I agree with you on this (and likely all of 2020 being toast), didn’t I read that Disney is looking to reopen their parks in June?

If you read it, I was just a guess from a fan blog because everyone was just furloughed indefinitely.

Originally I was hoping the parks would open back up in time for the 4th of July but now I am hoping they open for Halloween parties. Give me two weeks and my hope will probably shift to opening in time for Christmas.

Jeff said:

It's not going to happen. Parks won't open in June.

Fun Spot and Knoebels will. Because they're Fun Spot and Knoebels

^If I were a betting man I may take a wager on that! lol

DIdn't Knoebel's change their opening date until further notice?

They did. And obviously it depends on what the states do. But just based on how those two parks do things, I see them coming back before anyone else.

MaverickLaunch said:

So how is the wonderful NYT so incompetent as to say there is no evidence of transmission?

The burden of proof is on you. Please provide a link to something that substantiates that, as of 12-Jan, evidence existed demonstrating human transmission. The WHO quote does no such thing.

Until you can actually substantiate your "fake news" claims, you're just another person mindlessly regurgitating propaganda coming from your Dear Leader, nothing more.

I mean, just look:

(who broke no laws BTW)

LOL. I mean, if I didn't know any better, I'd say you were a parody account.

Pretty damning emails from within the government, regarding experts/advisors being ignored by the administration.

Dr. Kadlec and other administration officials decided the next day to recommend to Mr. Trump that he publicly support the start of these mitigation efforts, such as school closings. But before they could discuss it with the president, who was returning from India, another official went public with a warning, sending the stock market down sharply and angering Mr. Trump. The meeting to brief him on the recommendation was canceled and it was three weeks before Mr. Trump would reluctantly come around to the need for mitigation.

With the best words.

I don't understand the desire to defend insanely abnormal, sociopathic behavior. I saw the video that Obama issued today in his endorsement of Biden, and I was reminded how previous presidents (since Nixon, anyway), literally all of them of both parties, set the standard for behavior in the office. In every case, EVERY case, presidents were as transparent as practical, respectful of the role of the press and did not spend an hour each day trying to rewrite history.

Not only is he trying to rewrite history...he is often trying to rewrite very recent history. He is often times in a position of trying to deny or rewrite things he has said or tweeted within the past 24 hours.

Look up "Denialism"...a real medical condition. This (from Wikipedia):

Mark Hoofnagle (brother of Chris Hoofnagle) has described denialism as "the employment of rhetorical tactics to give the appearance of argument or legitimate debate, when in actuality there is none".[6][7][a] It is a process that operates by employing one or more of the following five tactics in order to maintain the appearance of legitimate controversy:[6][15]

Conspiracy theories – Dismissing the data or observation by suggesting opponents are involved in "a conspiracy to suppress the truth".
Cherry picking – Selecting an anomalous critical paper supporting their idea, or using outdated, flawed, and discredited papers in order to make their opponents look as though they base their ideas on weak research.
False experts – Paying an expert in the field, or another field, to lend supporting evidence or credibility.
Moving the goalposts – Dismissing evidence presented in response to a specific claim by continually demanding some other (often unfulfillable) piece of evidence.
Other logical fallacies – Usually one or more of false analogy, appeal to consequences, straw man, or red herring.

Sound like anyone you know?

Virus Impact on CP? Well Cedar Fair has $2.19 billion in debt, per the most recent quarter, and $182.5 million in cash. Their current ratio is standing at 0.91, meaning they don't have enough liquid assets to cover their near term liabilities. Everyday these parks stay closed, Cedar Fair bleeds cash, which is in short supply with none coming in (they are a pure park play, unlike Disney or Universal), just paying the debt, utilities, salaries, insurance, etc.

So how do they survive? Well, you immediately stop the dividend payments, one of the current liabilities. You can try and borrow money to tide you over. Don't think many banks will take on that risk. Issue bonds - good luck. Beg your creditors for a moratorium on payments - might work, but not for half a year would be my guess. Sell assets to generate cash, if you can find buyers.

So, bottom line, if Cedar Fair goes more than a short time (bet Cedar Fair knows what that time span is) without income, they will probably have to go Chapter 9 or, worse, Chapter 13 (bankrupt)

Or you start closing and selling less viable properties. If a 2020 season doesn't happen, I would imagine a park like Valleyfair or Michigan's Adventure or even Dorney wouldn't see their gates open ever again.

Jeff said:

With the best words.

I don't understand the desire to defend insanely abnormal, sociopathic behavior. I saw the video that Obama issued today in his endorsement of Biden, and I was reminded how previous presidents (since Nixon, anyway), literally all of them of both parties, set the standard for behavior in the office. In every case, EVERY case, presidents were as transparent as practical, respectful of the role of the press and did not spend an hour each day trying to rewrite history.

The truth is that for the past few decades they all suck and kill people regardless of party for profit (Yes even Obama), some of them do it with a smile and some manners, but does it really make a difference?

That is the objective reality. Now since you're on a Cedar Point forum can you speak with some relevance? The situation is quite serious and Cedar Fair is complementing a lot, one of the reasons why I'm frequenting these forums, not for some reality TV show drama.

Cartwright said:

Or you start closing and selling less viable properties. If a 2020 season doesn't happen, I would imagine a park like Valleyfair or Michigan's Adventure or even Dorney wouldn't see their gates open ever again.

I take it that Cedar Point and Knotts Berry Farm are the most valuable parks in the chain? What other parks or properties can be considered safe?

Kings Island, Carowinds, Kings Dominion, Canada's Wonderland and probably Michigan's Adventure

Chief Wahoo said:
Sound like anyone you know?

My kids.

Rapids 77 78 said
So how do they survive?

There are the stimulus loans. CF has relatively few full time employees. Any news of lay-offs yet?

They are in the hospitality industry which has been earmarked.

Just posted on the Cedar Point Facebook page:

Thank you to our current Cedar Point Season Passholders for your continued support. Given the uncertainty around our park opening, we want to share an important update regarding 2020 Season Passholder benefits.

2020 Season Passes and purchased 2020 Season Pass Add-On Products (if applicable) will be valid for the remainder of 2020 when our park is able to open, PLUS we will extend your pass through 2021 Season.

For complete details, please visit: bit.ly/2XHuKeR

Corporate Mouse said:
The truth is that for the past few decades they all suck and kill people regardless of party for profit (Yes even Obama), some of them do it with a smile and some manners, but does it really make a difference? That is the objective reality.

No, that's not the truth or objective reality. This is the classic false moral equivalency argument. As I enumerated above, this president is not the same as any in my lifetime. It took this moron to make me realize that, while no W. fan, I do think he was a well-intentioned and moral man, no matter how much I disagreed with his policy. He was not a sociopath or an autocrat.

Now since you're on a Cedar Point forum can you speak with some relevance and not some silly propaganda?

Pro tip: Don't come to my house and tell me how to run it.

Here is some info from the FAQs on the pass extenstion page posted above about what parks are doing for cleanliness:

Cedar Fair's highest priority is always the safety of our guests and associates. We continue to implement preventive measures as recommended by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) as well as our own health and hygiene protocols. All our parks and resorts have high standards of cleanliness, which assists with illness prevention. We employ rigorous sanitation standards and robust cleaning procedures, including:

Extensive and ongoing training for associates on maintaining a safe and hygienic workplace and environment for our guests;
Specified intervals for frequent sanitization of targeted areas throughout the day;
Numerous and accessible handwashing facilities and hand sanitizer locations;
Quick response to spills, trash, and other situations;
Daily and frequent sanitation procedures for restrooms, kitchens, dining surfaces, benches, and trash cans;
Daily and frequent cleaning and "wash down" of outdoor locations, including walkways and queue lines
The leadership team is communicating with our associates about illness prevention; this includes guidance issued by the CDC. The CDC recommends everyday preventive actions to help stop the spread of germs. The CDC provides more detailed coronavirus information on its website at www.cdc.gov.

As always, we maintain close relationships with local, state, national, and international public health authorities. We take their guidance when additional preventive measures are deemed necessary.

djDaemon said:

(who broke no laws BTW)

LOL. I mean, if I didn't know any better, I'd say you were a parody account.

Please explain what laws were broken.