Virtual Queuing
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This is an excerpt from an article in the May 14th. Amusement Business:
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Cedar Point, Sandusky, Ohio, used a paper reservation system on its new Millennium Force roller coaster during the 2000 season, but is not
venturing into line management in 2001, according to Janice Witherow, PR manager. Use of Cedar Point's system, known as Ticket to Ride, was
the only way to ride Millennium Force during most of each operating day "It worked well and last season was the first we used it," Witherow said.
"We recognize the need for a system and we're in the process of exploring several high-tech systems."
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So, it looks like virtual queuing is here to to stay. The article mentioned that most chain parks are experimenting with various systems this year, and many expect large scale rollouts in 2002. The most interesting is the one at SFOG, provided by Lo-Q from the U.K., that actually uses electronic devices given to guests. SFOG will set up kiosks so guests can reserve ride times for a number of different rides at central locations. The system is also interactive and can be used as a child locator, a data collector for marketing and a proximity marketing tool.
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Cedar Point, Sandusky, Ohio, used a paper reservation system on its new Millennium Force roller coaster during the 2000 season, but is not
venturing into line management in 2001, according to Janice Witherow, PR manager. Use of Cedar Point's system, known as Ticket to Ride, was
the only way to ride Millennium Force during most of each operating day "It worked well and last season was the first we used it," Witherow said.
"We recognize the need for a system and we're in the process of exploring several high-tech systems."
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So, it looks like virtual queuing is here to to stay. The article mentioned that most chain parks are experimenting with various systems this year, and many expect large scale rollouts in 2002. The most interesting is the one at SFOG, provided by Lo-Q from the U.K., that actually uses electronic devices given to guests. SFOG will set up kiosks so guests can reserve ride times for a number of different rides at central locations. The system is also interactive and can be used as a child locator, a data collector for marketing and a proximity marketing tool.
Queue Nazi :"Guest 21787, Report to your ride at Raptor."
Guest: "But I want to ride Magnum now"
Queue Nazi: "No Magnum For You"
I understand the need for a system on popular ride's like Millennium Force on real busy days, but with a high capacity park like Cedar Point I feel there is no need for one. At a place like CP, I think these systems just confuse and anger people more than anything else.
Cedar Point better not be looking for a solution for where there is no problem. Why don't they start doing everything that Six Flags or Disney dose while they are at it?
Guest: "But I want to ride Magnum now"
Queue Nazi: "No Magnum For You"
I understand the need for a system on popular ride's like Millennium Force on real busy days, but with a high capacity park like Cedar Point I feel there is no need for one. At a place like CP, I think these systems just confuse and anger people more than anything else.
Cedar Point better not be looking for a solution for where there is no problem. Why don't they start doing everything that Six Flags or Disney dose while they are at it?
We went to Disney a few weeks ago and I think FastPass is a great system. The implementation was wonderful and it really works wonders on a busy day. As long as they offer stand-by lines, I think Cedar Point should continue to extensively explore this idea.
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VirtualMidway
http://www.virtualmidway.com
*** This post was edited by Gemini on 5/23/2001. ***
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VirtualMidway
http://www.virtualmidway.com
*** This post was edited by Gemini on 5/23/2001. ***
Just my $.02 -- it almost takes the fun out of it! As if, yeah, let's "schedule" our day at CP so that we don't have to wait for a thing, and we can all carry around our planners and agendas and have our whole fun day all planned out perfectly. Not to knock the system entirely, because certainly it does have it's uses on occasion, but it's not for me. Let's just ride!
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PO!NT OF VIEW - A Different Look at Roller Coasters
http://www.crosswinds.net/~justmayntz/thrills/
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PO!NT OF VIEW - A Different Look at Roller Coasters
http://www.crosswinds.net/~justmayntz/thrills/
At least at Disney, it's not like that at all. You just grab your ticket and come back when it's your turn.
My wife wanted to go on "The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh" (yes, I agreed to go on - it's part of being married :) ) ... The line was too long, so we grabbed a FastPass that was for about an hour later. We used that hour to experience a handful of attractions that didn't have much of a wait. We came back and got right on. That day, it was the only time we used it. I think it helps that it is only available on a handful of attractions.
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VirtualMidway
http://www.virtualmidway.com
My wife wanted to go on "The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh" (yes, I agreed to go on - it's part of being married :) ) ... The line was too long, so we grabbed a FastPass that was for about an hour later. We used that hour to experience a handful of attractions that didn't have much of a wait. We came back and got right on. That day, it was the only time we used it. I think it helps that it is only available on a handful of attractions.
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VirtualMidway
http://www.virtualmidway.com
The system is wonderfully implemented at both Disney and Universal parks. I was excited about the system coming to CP, until I went to go ride MF the next day.
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http://www.thepointol.com
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http://www.thepointol.com
>Queue Nazi: "No Magnum For You"
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I DON'T like the idea of FastPass for CP. I hit Florida back in March and while it was nice to have that system THERE, it just doesn't seem right for CP. We survived all this time without it, for one. I can see it being okay for THE most crowded days, but I agree with CrystalKat that I don't want to "plan" my day like that. It was a pain in the butt worrying about that in FL and I sure as heck wouldn't go through it here. Besides, we all go enough that we don't have to stress if we don't get on Force or wait an hour for Magnum. Not so for the GP. :( Just my H.O. though. Betcha we see it within the next few years...I just won't be using it.
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*-CP Irvine-* I know who's fault it is!
*The FewER, The Proud, The Po!nter Girls*
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I DON'T like the idea of FastPass for CP. I hit Florida back in March and while it was nice to have that system THERE, it just doesn't seem right for CP. We survived all this time without it, for one. I can see it being okay for THE most crowded days, but I agree with CrystalKat that I don't want to "plan" my day like that. It was a pain in the butt worrying about that in FL and I sure as heck wouldn't go through it here. Besides, we all go enough that we don't have to stress if we don't get on Force or wait an hour for Magnum. Not so for the GP. :( Just my H.O. though. Betcha we see it within the next few years...I just won't be using it.
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*-CP Irvine-* I know who's fault it is!
*The FewER, The Proud, The Po!nter Girls*
As I understand it you're not forced to 'plan' your day, if you want to use FastPass you use it, if you just want to wait in line, you wait in line.
Of course, the park would rather have you NOT wait in a long line, trapped, so far away from all those gift shops, food stands, restaurants, games, and other enticements to part you from your funds.
Of course, the park would rather have you NOT wait in a long line, trapped, so far away from all those gift shops, food stands, restaurants, games, and other enticements to part you from your funds.
I agree that FastPass is great... At Disney. I think it only fits into that theme park thing. CP is a great amusement park, nowhere near being a theme park.
When the Point makes that transformation, a FastPass system will be highly accepted by me.
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-The Pants Has Spoken
"Welcome to Alaska..."
Organizer of the Disaster Transport 80
When the Point makes that transformation, a FastPass system will be highly accepted by me.
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-The Pants Has Spoken
"Welcome to Alaska..."
Organizer of the Disaster Transport 80
The problem is right now, people balk at entering a queue larger than 2 hours, so you could get about 7 rides of the same ride in one day. People won't balk to enter a virtual queue, so you could only ride it once or twice now! And where will all the people that would be standing in line go? I suppose it would be a good idea if it was MF only, but I don't know about the rest of the rides!
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A bad day at CP is better than a good day at work.
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A bad day at CP is better than a good day at work.
Well, I wouldn't want to wait in lines for 14hrs. just to get seven three min. rides. I don't care how good the coaster is. I love the idea of having time to do other things besides waiting in a long line to ride a ride. I'd much rather get two rides on MF and not bother with a long queue then the scenario you describe. I say, "bring on the high-tech Ticket-To-Ride!"
I'm all for it, provided it works like the Disney system (the only successful implementation I've heard of). TTR was a disaster.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Futuristic bow-wow... do the dog catcher!
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Futuristic bow-wow... do the dog catcher!
I went to Disney last year and honestly found the fast pass to be well.....not that fast of a pass. I waited in a huge line anyway. I think that scheduling ride times is horrific and takes away from the spontineity of it all. I do however love the genius who thought of the parent swap. BRILIANT! Without this little pink slip, we would have had a miserable time. It is a God-send for families with little ones,,,and or older ones that are chicken.
I am also howling over the whole Queue Nazi thing....briliant!
Kruggie's two cents
I am also howling over the whole Queue Nazi thing....briliant!
Kruggie's two cents
I hate the idea of having to schedule every ride! I agree entirely with CrystalKat on this! It's ok for the new rides. But for everything/! Give me a break!! Most of us are spontaneous.We walk by a ride and say "cool,only an hour wait,let's go on"
I say for those people that might travel from afar and happen to be there on busy day,sell them a special access pass that would allow them to go up exit. Make it expensive,so only the serious ones would do it. If expensive, I don't think you would have other guests complaining. They would be "if they want to spend that much for it,so be it".
That's my $.02 worth! LOL
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http://www.magnummania.com
jerry@magnummania.com
I say for those people that might travel from afar and happen to be there on busy day,sell them a special access pass that would allow them to go up exit. Make it expensive,so only the serious ones would do it. If expensive, I don't think you would have other guests complaining. They would be "if they want to spend that much for it,so be it".
That's my $.02 worth! LOL
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http://www.magnummania.com
jerry@magnummania.com
Look, the trouble with Disney's system is that what they are really doing is to cut the capacity of the ride wrt. the ride's queue. The FastPass system can only be 'fast' if only a small percentage of the people who want to ride the ride actually participate. If you make everyone schedule his ride, you have Cedar Point's "Ticket to Ride" where everyone has to stand in a long ticket line and then stand in a long ride line. Trouble is, the existence of a virtual queue opt-in point does not reduce the number of people entering the primary ride queue. As a result you have a combination of the 'normal' riders and the 'virtual queue' riders...and you've guaranteed the virtual queue riders a seat within a given window. This means that you've effectively cut the capacity of the ride for the normal queue, and those people now have to stand in a much longer line than they would have had to if the virtual queue didn't exist.
So far, the only ride I have seen where a virtual queue would work without slowing down the main queue is Gemini. Here's why: I figure that a single turnstile can handle 2,536 PPH. Since Gemini can handle 3,400 PPH, the logical thing to do would be to set up a second entrance for virtual queue users with a virtual queue set to operate at 870 PPH, which would take up the main queue's inability to deliver riders to the platform. (By the way, that's why Gemini has two entrances: because one entrance can't deliver people to the platform fast enough to keep six trains full). Of course, there would be no point in setting up such a system because the ride handles so many people that there is almost never a wait for it anyway.
Virtual queues are nothing more than a shell game. Instead of having people wait in line in one place, it involves having people wait in line somewhere else. In the case of Millennium Force last year it gave Mantis the longest line that ride has had in years. The real answer is a combination of high capacity and crowd control, not some high-tech ticketing system.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
So far, the only ride I have seen where a virtual queue would work without slowing down the main queue is Gemini. Here's why: I figure that a single turnstile can handle 2,536 PPH. Since Gemini can handle 3,400 PPH, the logical thing to do would be to set up a second entrance for virtual queue users with a virtual queue set to operate at 870 PPH, which would take up the main queue's inability to deliver riders to the platform. (By the way, that's why Gemini has two entrances: because one entrance can't deliver people to the platform fast enough to keep six trains full). Of course, there would be no point in setting up such a system because the ride handles so many people that there is almost never a wait for it anyway.
Virtual queues are nothing more than a shell game. Instead of having people wait in line in one place, it involves having people wait in line somewhere else. In the case of Millennium Force last year it gave Mantis the longest line that ride has had in years. The real answer is a combination of high capacity and crowd control, not some high-tech ticketing system.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
I don't know anything about Universal's system, so I can't comment.
However, I tend to disagree with Dave's assesment of Disney's system. Walt can correct me, but it seems that because you can only have one pass at a time, regardless of the number of rides using it, there isn't a huge run on the passes (your ticket or pass is what grants you the ticket). Furthermore, if it's automated and there are several "ATM's" there, I don't see why you'd have to wait for them. Scan your ticket/pass, bam, you have your ticket.
I'm also guessing that the system only allows a certain percentage of one hour's capacity go to passes, while the rest goes to the stand-by line. Combine that with smaller blocks, say ten minutes each, and you've got a much better system than TTR. If your assignment is for 2:10, and there are 125 other people in that block, then you're on within a few trains. Next after that is the 2:20 block, all the while the stand-by line is filling the other half of seats.
I'd much rather step up to a machine, get my ticket, and have a beer watching the hoochie show in Red Garter than stand in line and see the less talented hoochies in line over and over again for two hours.
Why does it work when TTR failed?
- No people handing things out.
- You can always wait in line if you want.
- People assigned to very specific blocks of time.
- You can't cheat the system.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Futuristic bow-wow... do the dog catcher!
However, I tend to disagree with Dave's assesment of Disney's system. Walt can correct me, but it seems that because you can only have one pass at a time, regardless of the number of rides using it, there isn't a huge run on the passes (your ticket or pass is what grants you the ticket). Furthermore, if it's automated and there are several "ATM's" there, I don't see why you'd have to wait for them. Scan your ticket/pass, bam, you have your ticket.
I'm also guessing that the system only allows a certain percentage of one hour's capacity go to passes, while the rest goes to the stand-by line. Combine that with smaller blocks, say ten minutes each, and you've got a much better system than TTR. If your assignment is for 2:10, and there are 125 other people in that block, then you're on within a few trains. Next after that is the 2:20 block, all the while the stand-by line is filling the other half of seats.
I'd much rather step up to a machine, get my ticket, and have a beer watching the hoochie show in Red Garter than stand in line and see the less talented hoochies in line over and over again for two hours.
Why does it work when TTR failed?
- No people handing things out.
- You can always wait in line if you want.
- People assigned to very specific blocks of time.
- You can't cheat the system.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Futuristic bow-wow... do the dog catcher!
You are correct. Only one F.P. is given at a time. You can't get your next F.P. until the one you have has expired. Each attraction with F.P. does indeed have several distribution "ATMs" and an attendant if you need help. Granted it wasn't exactly July 4, but it was a fast process. Electronic signs overhead told you exactly what the current time block for return was. The blocks were smaller (I think 15 minutes, but I don't remember) and there were a limited number of F.P. available per attraction per day. I believe there is some sort of magic formula for the percentage of F.P. versus stand-by ... and I'm sure that formula has undergone lots of testing.
I haven't used F.P. extensively - just for the week we were there. But I really liked it and I think, if done right, it would work well at CP.
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VirtualMidway
http://www.virtualmidway.com
*** This post was edited by Gemini on 5/24/2001. ***
I haven't used F.P. extensively - just for the week we were there. But I really liked it and I think, if done right, it would work well at CP.
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VirtualMidway
http://www.virtualmidway.com
*** This post was edited by Gemini on 5/24/2001. ***
I think you should have a choice, if you want the electronic pass or just wait in line, but then you have the problem of 2 queue lines, but that worked out on MF last year, oh well. I was just putting my two cents in!!
its the ride, not the records
-me
www.coreysamusementparks.homestead.com/home.html
its the ride, not the records
-me
www.coreysamusementparks.homestead.com/home.html
Disney's Fastpass really doesnt work. We go all the time, and I have found out that it just screws things up. Someone mentioned the scheduling thing, and that is what you are doing. You are setting your day in stone. You may be hungry at noon, but too bad, you got a Fastpass for Space Mountain on the other side of the park and have to interrupt your day and go back over there and then back to where you were...and it all really just screws up people who want to just take the day as it comes. I would hate to see CP get a system, and I can tell you that most of you would, too. Mostly locals, it will screw you over so much if it is anything like Disney's. Locals dont always want to spend a whole day in the park. Look at one of the most popular attractions at Disney, Test Track. The tickets are sold out by noon, making you come back about 10 hours later, and the standby wait is no less than 90 minutes, to let all the Fastpassers in. On busy days, that is what happens to EVERY ride. So yep there's my view on the whole thing, maybe CP can do a better job than Disney. Lets hope so at least :-)
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Scotty
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Scotty
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