Understaffing at Cedar Point hits nightmarish levels...

thedevariouseffect said:

The parks have said staffing people is a problem. Rides requires 18+ for operations, and I believe several other positions may as well (food leadership, etc. -- but not sure). Other places can pull from the local community, but that's to an extent. Not every high school kid in Sandusky or the general area wants to work there.

This is a Cedar Point policy, not a State labor law. At GL rides employed 16 year olds, even while under CF management. I believe KI also allows 16 year old ride operators. CP handcuffs themselves with this 18+ policy for rides.

Kevinj said:

Your question is my point. Many are speaking as if Cedar Point and Cedar Fair are just not trying to fix the problem in some way, and none of us have any clue what has or has not been said, implemented, attempted, etc...

But we do "know" (through admittedly secondhand info around here) two things:

1. The retention program (or whatever it was called) was scrapped.
2. Wages have not been significantly increased.

That suggests one of the following:

1. They aren't particularly concerned about a poorly-staffed park, OR
2. Those incentives weren't/aren't projected to be effective.

Now, I suppose #2 above is possible, but it certainly flies in the face of basic economic theory. There must be some compensation level at which they can attract an adequate work force. They are either unwilling or unable to offer that compensation. And looking at their Q4 results in recent years, it doesn't appear that they're unable to offer that compensation.

Kevinj said:
Many are speaking as if Cedar Point and Cedar Fair are just not trying to fix the problem in some way, and none of us have any clue what has or has not been said, implemented, attempted, etc...

Well, since we haven't heard of increased wages, bringing back the season long bonus, transportation offerings, reaching out to alumni of the park, reaching out to local seniors, or any of the other things that might be a visible sign of them trying to address the problem with more than lip service, we are left to wonder. Facebook popped up a memoryfor me yesterday of a picture at Cedar Point seven years ago to the day with a full Magnum queue at 5:45PM. Busy days in October are not a new thing. Hanging some signs around the park and along the causeway looking to hire screamsters is not much of an effort.

One staffing solution that nobody talks about: hiring more retirees and senior citizens. For folks 65 and older, there is concrete proof that getting out for a part-time job helps their mental health by staying active, involved, social, etc.

The problem though is many parks have a cookie-cutter mentality about staffing (so this is not directed only at CP.) You MUST be able to work open-to-close, you MUST be able to commit to Fri-Sat-Sun, you must be able to work an 8-10-12+ hour shift with just a 30 minute break, etc. It's this way of thinking that prevents them from finding alternative staffing solutions. You certainly can't treat senior workers this way...they aren't 18 year olds after all.

You know what I would do as a test? I would source senior groups/organizations/assisted living facilities to hire a team of seniors for the foods dept. and send them out into the park during Halloweekends on rotating shifts carrying bags of food/beverages just like at the stadium/ballpark....one item, one price, cash only (hot dogs, Cokes, cookies, popcorn, etc.) to take some of the pressure off the normal food stands and improve the guest experience given the biggest complaint seems to be waiting for food. Let them work in pairs, one with a beverage and one with a food item and roam a designated park area together. Maybe even design some sort of small push cart so they don't have to lug around a heavy bag/tray. Once sold out, go back to refill and take a 20 minute break before heading out again and be done by 10pm so they can head out before traffic gets crazy.

Ohio is crawling with retired folks within a short distance of Sandusky, it's a market that isn't heavily recruited but could be one solution if treated with dignity, respect, and flexibility.

Does anyone know if the park contacts alumni to offer positions?

Has any alumni been contacted by the park, other then just a prior year alum asking to return?

Perhaps offer an incentive pay program for prior alumni since they’ve been through the training and the ins and outs of working at the point and would be easier to process in. These people may be interested in filling some of these shoulder season positions. And be flexible with these employees schedules so as to maximize any potential interest.

BayernKurve said:

The problem though is many parks have a cookie-cutter mentality about staffing (so this is not directed only at CP.) You MUST be able to work open-to-close, you MUST be able to commit to Fri-Sat-Sun, you must be able to work an 8-10-12+ hour shift with just a 30 minute break, etc. It's this way of thinking that prevents them from finding alternative staffing solutions. You certainly can't treat senior workers this way...they aren't 18 year olds after all.

This is a good point and in my experience (admittedly dated at this point) with Cedar Point, this is exactly how it is.

Think of the people this eliminates. Seniors, local 9-5ers in just about any industry, high school kids who might come after school, etc.

What about a PTA that wanted to get a group of teachers and parents to go work a weekend or two to raise money for a new playground or something nice for the school and their kids? Offer discounted tickets to get the families to come and laugh at their teachers or friend's parents serving fries or trying to spiel on a coaster!

What about bringing in locals to work some evenings during the summer to spell the college kids doing 80 hour weeks. Seek out those people and try to make use of them rather than see anyone who isn't 100% available 100% of the time as a nuisance. Have them trained and ready to go for fall weekends at various positions. I realize it's not going to be as easy to make a schedule (is this still done ride by ride and by hand?) as if 100% of your staff was always available, but I just don't see any changes to the way they've always done things and the park keeps getting more and more embarrassing to try to defend during some of these weekends.

What about a hiring a temp agency. Then the responsibility would be on the agency to properly staff its customer. After all, they do this with their security.

I imagine if they paid $15 an hour their pool of qualified applicants that would be willing to work the necessary hours would be more than large enough compared to the current wage that's probably less than $10 an hour. $15 an hour is worth a lot of people's time compared to say $9.50 an hour. Heck, even $12 or $12.50 would probably be more than enough attractive to get more staff than they need. To me it seems that around $12 is the "this work isn't what I love doing, but for what I'm getting paid I can do it" threshold.

Starting rate is $8.95 an hour.

The kids that have made all summer are utterly and thoroughly worn out at this time of year. You can see it in their eyes and posture. Most of them have been working 60 to 70 hours a week all summer, left for school and return for the Halloweekends. on weekends they usually put in close to 40 hours in three days, I don't care how old you are, that is exceedingly tough hours of work and on top of that go to college full time during the week. They get two dollars an hour bonus money for certain weekends like Columbus day and the upcoming weekend which is already projected to be busier than last weekend, (10/13 to 10/15) by hotel reservations received. Plan accordingly if you are going.

Take it easy on the workers when in the park, they are just trying to make it two more weeks.....

Llets Ecnaegnev said:

What about a hiring a temp agency. Then the responsibility would be on the agency to properly staff its customer. After all, they do this with their security.

That would probably make it worse instead of better. At some places I've worked at they hired temps and it was quite a common occurence for someone to not come back from break after their first day on the job. That caused a problem at a place where there are only a few workers, it would be a big problem at a place like CP.

I've suggested the retiree solution before. Dollywood successfully employs seniors for many job positions. How hard would it be for the older generation to run tickets, ride entrances, gift shops, etc.

There are other costs involved in hiring more staff vs having few staff working more hours, but I don't know what those numbers look like at a scale that CP is working on.

Redwolf said:

Starting rate is $8.95 an hour.

The kids that have made all summer are utterly and thoroughly worn out at this time of year. You can see it in their eyes and posture....

Take it easy on the workers when in the park, they are just trying to make it two more weeks.....

TRUTH

Let's put it into perspective. Most work O-C most days, or close to it (10 hours up working a ride, some breaks are paid, some aren't depending on the shift. Your break is moreover half the amount given walking to / from the ride on time, guest interaction, and actual "you" time, but that's besides the point. Lets take the typical 10 hour day. A good majority of the season is the peak point where you aren't even guaranteed a one day off. Typically for a day off the day prior you will work an O-6, then have a day off, then work a 3-C, then back to O-C's, etc. I wish I had a picture of the schedule to show how it's oriented.

But all in all, lets just say 70 hours of work. Count in traffic, uniforms, potential overages (someone calls off, coverage is needed, shift picked up, etc.), it's more closer to 75 hours on the average, every single week. A few years ago crossing the threshold of 80 hours a week was a pretty real reality. However, in late with labor laws / insurance law changes, you won't typically see that, but you will see a 70 hour week with no issue.

Granted, this is all at minimum wage too, or slightly above. So 70 hours, every week, minimum wage, for a long time. It's something only those young & ambitious can pull off, and it's not easy.

To put it into perspective. I woke up everyday at 7:45 to get up, shower / clean / etc. Out the door by 8:00, parked and in the park clocked in by 08:30, and at the ride by 08:45 to start opening procedures to be ready for a 10:00 opening. If you worked an early entry ride, expect that to be an hour earlier for that process, or more depending on the ride & opening procedures.

After that, breaks start at 11:00 and rotate through staff depending on their shift. Your first break could be as late as 1:00 by that point. IIRC for an O-C you were allotted 1 paid 45 min, 1 unpaid 45 min, then another 30 and 15 unpaid later in the day. Those breaks typically start at 4-7 or somewhere around there. The smaller breaks (like the 15) can sometimes go into 8:00, depending on days, however most combine and take another large 45 later, or use the 15 earlier, and then take a 30, etc.

Then in terms of closing the ride, you're there through the park close. You have low zone locks, loose articles left behind / tossed in low zones, parking trains, any cleaning, closing paperwork, etc. Then you have to take all of those articles + paperwork to their applicable departments, and then head out the same way as every other guest. Typically a ride is closed and everything done if the queue is empty by about 30 mins after (so for a 10:00 close about 10:40 the ride is closed + done). If you have a queue or other responsibilities that night it takes even longer. In a typical close, you're then home by 11:00 - 11:10 (which that depends entirely on exit traffic). Once you're finished there, by the time you get a late dinner, catch up, clean up, head to bed, it's already 12-1:00 in the morning. Get ready to repeat again.

So putting that in perspective you're in the parks moving or doing stuff for about 12-15 hours on average every day. It's hard work. It's rewarding in terms of personal growth IMO and a great resume item for a younger person. However, it's not something anyone can go do. Hell, looking at the wage above, 9 bucks paid biweekly does grant a decent check for someone young. However, they can find a similar wage at a typical 8-5 that pays the same amount easier, and doesn't give that much stress or pull you into work more than free time per day.

Now lets look at the current situation. For Halloweekends. It's 6:00 - Midnight (6 hour day). So Friday, get in the park at 4:45 for work, then work through till midnight, then get home. You may have an O-C the next day of 11 - Midnight there, and then an 11-8. That's a total of 32 work hours in a weekend. What takes most people 4 days in a regular job hits in 3 days, and it's alot of back to back. Waking up Saturday after working till midnight to be at a ride by 9 when you got home at 1:30 or so in the morning is rough work some days. Hell Columbus day I think I got back and out of the park at like 2:30...I remember that day extremely well...

What needs to happen is better employee living conditions, better promotions / leadership opportunities, better incentives for returning employees, better schedule flexibility, and more perks than "you get to come here free" stuff. I'm sure they'll get there, but it's still going to be a hard sell.

Again I do not think it was entirely an employee staffing situation. It's a contributing factor, but I do think weather & guest turnout was overwhelming and nothing the park was prepared for or would reasonably be prepared for. Tie that in with a very depleted, and very tired workforce, it's hard, but I agree, don't pin this on the guys there working, this isn't really all on them.

I WAS THERE! I SURVIVED SATURDAY 10/15/17!

As a Floridian, we flew up for the weekend. We bought 2018 season passes and were excited to enjoy our free admission. We wanted our kids to experience all of the children's activities that were being held on Saturday afternoon and so we knew what we were getting into (normally we would've gone on Friday).

We knew we wouldn't ride any coasters, but we stayed in Planet Snoopy, Kiddy Kingdom, Barnyard, and rode the train for a few laps. We had a great time, aside from the food service. I also noticed they were not charging for drink refills, but just let everyone have free refills. Not sure if this was just my experience, but no one charged me all day for what should've been a $1.00 fill up.

As a Disney pass holder the main difference is that Disney is experienced in crowd control and moving people through lines and serving them food, and Cedar Point is not. As has been mentioned above, most of this is because Cedar Point has only a handful of days throughout the year where the crowds are outrageous. 50% of the people I interacted with were volunteers. I was there in late June and the park was well-staffed, but there weren't near the crowds.

There were frustrations, but I knew that going into it. I really don't think there is a solution. It's too bad they can't develop a college program like Disney has, the problem, of course is that Disney is a year-round operation- Cedar Point is not. It seems though they could at least bus people to the park for the weekend from area colleges and get the job done.

They certainly need to build a Harmony Hall. I don't know where they want to build it, where it would be the most appropriate, but the 1960's style eateries are just not efficient, this is half the problem. I waited 45 minutes for a slice of pizza near Gatekeeper. The food trucks seem to be at least a temporary solution- bring in outside vendors to sell food which alleviates the demand.

The biggest problem I saw on Saturday, however, were rides closed most of the day and then opened in the evening when more staff arrived. This is not okay. I can handle the long lines, but when the rides are closed because there's no one to staff them- that's a problem.

For those of you that don't know... Here's how Orlando does it. I mention Busch Gardens because it is more of a regional park than a destination park like Universal, and they follow the same model.... its probably what Cedar Point may have to start doing for Saturdays....

Universal and Busch Gardens operate a normal day and then close around 6 PM. The park reopens around 7PM for Hallowscream/HHN guests only. Those guests are also allowed to enter the park at 5 PM.

When the parks reopen, only a select number of rides open with them. Saturday nights at Cedar Point may need to follow this model. Kiddy Kingdom, Planet Snoopy, etc. don't need to be operating Saturday evening... turn those associates into screamsters from 6-7.

Again... I understand its a different region, but it's another possibility. Saturday admission would be around $50 (what it currently is), Saturday Night Haunt would be $50, an all day Saturday would be $85.

thedevariouseffect said:

...I do think weather & guest turnout was overwhelming and nothing the park was prepared for or would reasonably be prepared for. Tie that in with a very depleted, and very tired workforce, it's hard, but I agree, don't pin this on the guys there working, this isn't really all on them.

First, I don't see anyone blaming the workers.

Second, if the park cannot anticipate nor prepare for being near or at capacity on a sunny October Saturday, they should all be fired. The nice weather = super busy Saturday phenomenon has been happening for nearly a decade.

And who's to say they didn't anticipate that business the previous Saturday (Columbus Day weekend) and when it didn't show up, they made adjustments to their projections? We've had that happen, albeit on a smaller scale, and outside of begging people to come in on their day off or work extra hours, there was nothing we could do to alleviate the number of people arriving.

We had a similar situation the weekend "IT" came out, with crowds doubling industry predictions for the weekend. The summer business was soft, so there was no indication that the business would return, and we were staffed according to the trend. At Cedar Point, if they are literally running out of food, then the business was significantly higher than expected.

And who knows, maybe they had lost employees and didn't have the applicants to replace them. A friend of mine got hired out there about 8 years ago and worked for one night. I'm sure that still happens when people feel unfit, or worse unwelcome. This must be the hardest time of the year to hire, due to the limited population and the proportional amount of business those new employees will see on their very first day(s) at the park. I have no doubt that many new people experience those crowds and simply walk away.

I don't think a close and reopen would work. That would likely just create a mess with traffic since there are only 2 ways in and out of the park.

CP Maverick said:

At Cedar Point, if they are literally running out of food, then the business was significantly higher than expected.

I'd be more inclined to believe they're trying to scrape by on minimal inventory to keep down on waste when they close for the year.

Those are perishables and they get deliveries during the week. With two full weekends left, they have plenty of time to burn through stock. Running out is an indication of higher business than expected.

Pete said:

Yes, global warming will make Ohio a weather paradise state after the oceans rise and flood the coasts and make southern areas way too hot to live in comfortably. Just all the people moving north should increase the pool of available workers. :)

Seriously though, there is a lot of discussion going on here about last Saturday and how staffing made everyone supposedly have a bad time. I don't believe it is primarily the staffing, it was the 70,000 people that showed up. No amount of staffing would have made last Saturday a good experience. They certainly need to work on staffing but this thread should really be titled "Crowds at Cedar Point hits nightmarish levels". From my own experience last Sat. the Burrito place in Frontier Town had a tolerable wait and all three of the Freestyle Coke places had quick moving lines and were not a problem. I had zero rides though, wouldn't even think of waiting with those crowds, just had fun in the beautiful weather strolling through the park.

More staffing certainly would have helped the poor souls who had to wait 45 minutes for a cup of a Coke or a crummy hot dog.

More staffing would have directed customers into the queue lines of rides that were actually running, instead of having thousands of customers roaming all over the park looking for a operating ride or an open food or drink stand.

The park would have been overcrowded, but the customers would actually (gasp!) be enjoying rides, and eating and drinking.

According to this, it's a good idea to shelve the volunteer ideas (yeah, I know...it's Facebook. I'm not writing a thesis on the mess at Cedar Point, take this for what you will:)

Cedar Point does not even deserve one star. I would like someone that works at Cedar Point to explain how your volunteers who are at the park working for a fundraiser are treated. My daughter's college softball team was there this past Saturday, Oct. 14. They arrived around 7:30 a.m. and worked until midnight. In that time, many of the girls did not get one break, including my daughter. 16 1/2 hours WITHOUT A BREAK!! NO RESTROOM BREAK, NO FOOD, NO WATER. NO, I AM NOT MAKING

I can't copy and paste the rest for some reason, but you get the idea.

The people who run the park are either completely in over the heads, or are the stingiest, most greedy uh...people you could ever meet. Take your pick. I'm going with the latter over the former, but the fact that this thread even exists should tell everyone a great deal about the people running that mess.

I ended up quitting at the end of September. I apologize to you guys for contributing to the problem. I left because it was not economically feasible for me to commute to and from Sandusky each weekend from school. I lived outside of the employee dorms (thank god- they need to be condemned) so I was paying rent on my house as well. The amount I was making simply was not enough to satisfy the living expenses, let alone for school.

I was also being asked to work 30 hours in 2 days. This was not a feasible commitment to make while trying to handle my course load and extracurricular activities. A social life? Forget it.

Then there was growing dissatisfaction with my job. Management frequently shifted the blame of associate dissatisfaction to the location leadership. The park has been understaffed for the majority of the season. It caused a revolving door effect where people would get stuck with 16 hour OCs in the middle of the season, get frustrated and quit. As soon as the park would bring in another person, They would pull someone from me to cover someone who quit. Then factor in that the internationals are afraid to work here due to politics and that those that are here are only on 10 week visas. The internationals that were here left and the park is now where it is.

I was able to find a part time job close to my school that pays almost double what I was making at Cedar Point. The job is flexible around my classes, has a set schedule, and offers more professional growth options than Cedar Point ever did. I am able to get all my work done for classes, attend clubs, and generally enjoy college. I can even watch football on the weekends or have a drink with friends!

My suggestions for Cedar Point are:

• To pay a decent wage. $10/hr for ride operators is a fair starting point for all that they do. Other positions in the park deserve more as well.
• Provide professional development training to all associates to challenge them and help them grow. -Perhaps work with BGSU Firelands to certify development programs or give college credit.
• Provide promotions, recognition, and raises to employees who stand out.
• Provide associates with challenges and specific goals to motivate them. None of this broad "Best day ever" stuff. Things that give ownership and pride. For example, we want to upsell x% of drink purchases to have a drink cup.
• Adjust schedules to allow for more time off and shorter shifts.
• Provide safe, clean, private housing that provides a place to relax and not feel like you are living in a prison.

Cedar Fair had a net income of over $177 million dollars last year according to their publicly view-able 2016 10K income statement. I don't pretend to know the corporate strategies but it seems like there is room in there to help and improve the employee experience while still paying out dividends and having some liquidity.