Understaffing at Cedar Point hits nightmarish levels...

Well that’s just odd to bring up in a thread about a company that doesn’t have a huge overseas tax shelter.

With the ‘Right?’ At the end of your post it seems you’re egging people on to change the subject.

This thread has been staying unusually on-point.

There has been a lot of interesting information and perspectives brought up in this topic. It’s quite refreshing on PB to have the topic not stray.

Pete said:
had Burritos in Frontier Town after about a 40 min. wait (you would have waited that long at Chipotle with the same crowd)

No wonder the bathroom lines were so long...

If Chick-fil-A has been the only restaurant open on Saturday I still wouldn’t have eaten there.

I was under the impression the current proposals involved much more than just overseas profits. So it will have no impact on CF financials or their ability to create jobs? I had been reading otherwise, I stand corrected.

Not trying to change the subject at all, discussing factors that may or may not impact the ability for CF to address the issues discussed in this thread seems very on topic to me.

So let's talk about Chipotle. You know, on topic.

Oh the subject of long waits at Chipotle; I typically order online so I don’t have to wait 20+ minutes every time I go there.

And I have a hard time believing ANY business that relies on “per cap” sales to cut their own throat by not having enough product to sell when they have a significant profit margin per item. They WANT to sell stuff. It goes against the business model to simply “run out” of product.

And years of data only mean so much when trends pull you away from that data. If the weather is nice and attendance is down 20% you don’t expect to see an increase of 20% immediately after that. Based on the attendance I saw on Friday before Columbus Day and the Friday after, the crowd shifted weekends. That’s not the norm, and the attendance models would reflect that as well. Good weather or not, the shift isn’t typically that dramatic.

CP Maverick said:

Oh the subject of long waits at Chipotle; I typically order online so I don’t have to wait 20+ minutes every time I go there.

Every time I order online, they get something very wrong. Our Chipotle is pretty terrible at basic things.

The other day, I ordered a Carnitas Bowl with green salsa, and when I got home, I found 3 little scraps of pork over some rice, with a biggest glob of guacamole I've ever seen... I hate guacamole. I was too hungry and sweaty to bother driving through the construction traffic to get back there, so I just scraped what I could off the top, and ate my rice.

Go to QDOBA instead. :-)

CP Maverick said:

And years of data only mean so much when trends pull you away from that data.

One weekend is not a "trend".

“Hey, remember that horrible time we had on Columbus Day weekend last year? This year, let’s wait and go the week after.”
Said everybody.

djDaemon said:

Go to QDOBA instead. :-)

If there were any near me, I totally would. They don't seem to have the option to make it as healthy, though.

djDaemon said:
Go to QDOBA instead. :-)

CP Maverick said:

And years of data only mean so much when trends pull you away from that data.

One weekend is not a "trend".

You are assuming that only one weekend was out of the ordinary. I’m suggesting that business was down from the trend for much longer.

That's quite an assumption, considering October Saturdays have routinely been crazy busy over the last several years.

Yes but 40k busy isn’t the same as 70k busy.

Suggesting that attendance has been trending down just isn't supported by their quarterly and annual reports, nor does that align with anecdotal observation.

As such, any claim such as "how was the park supposed to know it was going to be busy???!!?!?!" sounds pretty absurd.

I feel like you are missing the point, but I can't tell if it's intentional or not...

"Busier than expected" and "Didn't think it would be busy" are different statements. I use attendance trends every week at work. This stuff isn't as simple as "well the last 3 were X so we're going to ignore Y trends because of that."

Let's use some random out-of-thin-air numbers for this demonstration...

October Saturday history: Average 40k. Peak 65k. Highest on Columbus Day Saturday, with each week preceding and following dropping 15% from that business. Weather will sway attendance by up to 20%. (Remember, I am making up all of these numbers)

Wk: Past / Forecast / Actual
2Sep: 40k / 40k / 36k (-10%)
3Sep: 37k / 40k / 34k (-15%)
4Sep: 43k / 45k / 48k (+7%)
1Oct: 51k / 55k / 50k (-9%)
*2Oct: 60k / 65k / 55k (-15%)
3Oct: 51k / 55k / 71k (+29%)
4Oct: 43k / 45k /

This is the kind of thing I deal with every week. And there is always one or two weekends per year where that (+29%) thing surprises everyone and we need to scramble to make things work. Typically, it's when something like this past weekend happens where the business shifts away from the usual dates leaving what looks like a downward trend only to have it come back a week or two later. I mentioned "IT" because the summer was soft, so no one expected a September release to do July business. The same can be said for Beauty and the Beast back in March, or Deadpool a couple Februarys ago. Complicate the situation with the current struggle to staff the park and those outliers will stand out even more.

No one is excusing the lack of preparedness. We are discussing on how to improve or prevent these types of things from happening in the future; and they will happen.

I am on the board of a local nonprofit. In August we contacted CP about working a weekend or two as a fundraiser for our group, mainly consisting of older adults. Long story short, their list of requirements and availability needs made most members of our group unwilling to commit. We gladly would have worked with them had they shown some flexibility.

And so it goes. This began under Kinzel and has gotten worse under the current regime. The dollar is almighty. From upcharge rides to tiered parking to setting up fake security checkpoints to keep food from entering the park, each crass cash grab appears more unattractive. They see seasonal employees as a necessity which must be tolerated as the cost of doing business and a liability to their precious bottom line. If there were a way they could run the park automatically, they would. The guest experience no longer matters.

Being inflexible with staffing is definitely hurting the operations. I often have to “break the mold” when my available staff doesn’t exactly fit the blocks I need filled. But when I need the coverage I make it work.

Say CP gets a volunteer group available from 2-8 on Saturday. They can utilize split shifts to cover op-2 and 8-cl which eases the workload on those op-cL shifts. It’s still a long day, but a 4-6hr break is usually enough to benefit the employee who is otherwise working 12-16 hours.

cptedsdisciple2 said:

And so it goes. This began under Kinzel and has gotten worse under the current regime. The dollar is almighty. From upcharge rides to tiered parking to setting up fake security checkpoints to keep food from entering the park, each crass cash grab appears more unattractive. They see seasonal employees as a necessity which must be tolerated as the cost of doing business and a liability to their precious bottom line. If there were a way they could run the park automatically, they would. The guest experience no longer matters.

Wow, the negativity spewing in this thread is deafening.

They have two upcharge rides, both are low capacity and considered more extreme than a typical amusement ride. If they are not upcharge they would not be in the park because of low capacity. Where was all of the money grab negativity when Slingshot and Fling were installed? Many thought they were cool and were excited to try them.

As for parking, did you consider that a lot of people find it no big deal to drop $40 for valet parking for the convenience? Especially when dealing with strollers, etc.? Of course it brings the park extra money but it is also a guest enhancement. No one is forced to buy premium or valet parking, but what is wrong with offering it? Make some more money and give a convenience to guests who want to pay for it. Seems like a win to me.

As far as employees, they have a responsibility to the share holders to maximize profits, labor is a large expense. I don't know of a company that operates with the policy of over paying. Wages will be adjusted to a certain point as needed, but there is a point of diminishing returns as far as getting a better work force while still keeping wages at an appropriate level for the job. These jobs are fairly low paying jobs because it is basically grunt work. It's just fast food in an amusement park setting. In no way does it tell me management doesn't care about the guest experience. Most of the additions under Ouimet have been better detailed and more costly then under Kinzel. Don't forget that Kinzel built Breakers East and Tower with very cheap architectural details. Fixed under Ouimet. Believe it, they know customer satisfaction is important to maintaining business. A fan site discussion won't bring about an epiphany that has management pounding their heads saying "damn, why didn't we think of that". We're talking about the same management that will open a ride 30 minutes before closing that was down weather or mechanical just to get people on the ride and make them happy.

Well said Peter, well said.

I was there. One big note I haven't seen mentioned is Security was staffed well, both outside and inside. This is the one area I'd never want to see skimped on. While it was packed I never felt unsafe or felt the crowd could get out of control . ( I'm sure there were isolated incidents, but that happens every day.)

Merchandise and Games were staffed fine, mostly with ' volunteers ' who did a good job for having little training. Parking had many on Staff, but we're clearly undertrained. Cars were parked wherever basically. some double parked, parked in aisles , haphazardly on the grass, etc. Can't fault them though since its already the toughest job in the park, and you add an Impossible day with little training.

To me the highlight of the rides staffing issue was despite TTD, Power Tower, windseeker, sky ride , and good chunk of kids area rides not opened, there was still not 4 extra people available to get Blue on Gemini going. That's an easy 1000 PPH capacity with not that much more staffing. Magnum was running only 2 trains all day, which I suspect was due to a skeleton crew and wanting to avoid a train slamming into safeties virtually every time.

As far as foods, there had to have been much money left in people's pockets because so little was open. Given those margins , as an investor it's pretty disappointing let alone from a guest service POV.

Perhaps most impressive was the park was relatively clean given the crowds. Might have been more due to people not be able to buy food and the trash that it generates, but regardless with that many people the park was in good shape.

Should also note, just 2 weeks ago Blue on Gemini was staffed, and many more food stands were open. This must have been the week where they were caught shortest, and horrible timing for that.

Pete said:

Wow, the negativity spewing in this thread is deafening.

And yet it can barely be heard over the cacophony of apologists. :-)

As far as employees, they have a responsibility to the share holders to maximize profits, labor is a large expense.

Profits are a function of attendance. So if attendance decreases, so does profit. Putting forth a product that does not meet customer expectations can drive attendance down over the long term. Thus it's reasonable to argue that they have a responsibility to staff properly.

Further, as pointed out above, people can't pay for food if lines are prohibitively long. So poor staffing hurts profits to some degree.

No, they cannot throw infinite money at the problem, because at some point there will be diminishing returns. But there is no evidence they've done anything to combat the issue.

In no way does it tell me management doesn't care about the guest experience.

It would be easier to accept this argument if you could substantiate it with evidence that management has made efforts to solve the staffing issue.