TTD worst business decision...

Season pass holders are nice for the park (particularly when they help drive at least SOME revenue during the offseason) but it isn't who CP relies on to bring home the bacon.

On most of these posts and in similar threads you guys keep talking about the publicity a ride like TTD generates. Well gee, ain't that great? But, what really matters to Dick and the gang is what $$$$ is generated.

The Magic Kingdom at WDW is still the most heavily attended park in the world. Even if you take away the winter months and compare it to the 4 months CP is open it gets trounced. And, that is without one real THRILL ride, in my opinion. (Big Thunder and Space Mountain are nice but aren't anywhere on anyone's top 10 coaster list).

Why do I keep going back to the MK with my family? Because, with a few exceptions, there is hardly anything there that the ENTIRE family can't do together. Heck, I took my 4 month old on Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin thing. Besides the train and some car rides, what can I ride at CP with my 4 year old?

Yes, I understand that a good part of MKs attendance is derived from the shear fact that it is Disney. That would explain the first time visitors, to be sure. But, they have incredible numbers in return visitors and it is very rare when a new attraction opens inside the Magic Kingdom. The last significant attraction there was added in 1992...Splash Mountain.

What do they have? TONS of rides/attractions the whole family can do together. THAT is what CP is missing and they have some opportunities with their ties to Peanuts and the Nickelodeon properties. They need to start thinking outside the box.

While I totally agree with you about The Magic Kingdom's attendance and draw with their family rides, it's really like an apples to oranges comparison. The Magic Kingdom gets more visitors than Disneyland. Why is that? Because it's not JUST the Magic Kingdom in Florida. You have all the resorts, other parks, water parks, shopping, and venues outside of Disney to attend. But, for all intents and purposes, Disneyland and The Magic Kingdom are the same park. People go to the Florida resort because of the perceived value - ie: more stuff to do for your money.

I agree with you though if Cedar Point keeps adding in more family attractions, there will be a higher value to the park there too. A family can take everyone to the park and still have fun. The teens can ride the big coasters, the kids can do the kid rides, and the parents/grandparents can do a little bit of everything - including shows. With sixty nine rides and all the shows they have, Cedar Point already has more for the entire family to do than other parks. So, they just need to keep it up. In comparison, seventeen coasters is nothing compared to fifty two other rides.

^^WDW and Cedar Point are two ENTIRELY different kinds of resorts. You simply cannot compare the two. You cannot find a Walt Disney World anywhere else in the world. Not even the Disneyland resorts can compare. Meanwhile, you can find amusement parks like Cedar Point EVERYWHERE.

Also, CP has a bunch of family rides that you and your 4 year old can go on, just without the cuddly theming favorites that Disney has a diverse access too.
*** Edited 6/30/2007 2:52:35 PM UTC by ramboozle***

You're right, you can find amusement parks like CP everywhere. MK is unique because it has so many family attractions. That is one of the reasons MK gets so many visitors.

What CP needs to do is get more themed family attractions just as MK already has. That way CP's focus will be on the whole family more so than it already is. *** Edited 6/30/2007 4:28:55 PM UTC by cpandbball5***

Having talked with the PR dept. on a few occasions and looking at how CP markets their rides, "free marketing" is hardly any reason to make any coaster a good business decision. If you honestly think CP goes and builds a ride like TTD just for free publicity, you seriously need to take a marketing class.
*** Edited 6/30/2007 6:29:10 PM UTC by mk522***

MK, I happen to have an MBA, and if you think I am going to believe CP doesn't consider free publicity as important, you need to put down the crack pipe. (jp) Why in god's name would they have built the first 200, 300, and 400 footer if it weren't for the recognition (mkting). Does it drive the economics of the decision - no. But it is considered as the park / CF build their brands. Just about every coaster CP has built in the last 20 years has been a world record holder for at least the year it was built. (please).

mk522 said:
Having talked with the PR dept. on a few occasions and looking at how CP markets their rides, "free marketing" is hardly any reason to make any coaster a good business decision. If you honestly think CP goes and builds a ride like TTD just for free publicity, you seriously need to take a marketing class.
*** Edited 6/30/2007 6:29:10 PM UTC by mk522***

Where in my post did I say that CP doesn't consider free publicity important?

I stated that CP does not consider it the sole reason for building their rides, and anyone who knows Cedar Point can tell you that they build rides based on the market, what people want. (Granted, there have been a few exceptions over the years, but no company is perfect) There was an era for tallest and fastest, it's over now. I don't get why so many people think that CP is going to keep going higher and higher, there's no market for it, and there's no need for it. How many quotes from Kinzel should I pull for you?

Furthermore, stating that you have an MBA doesn't make a difference to me, because clearly you can't read posts in their entirety.
*** Edited 6/30/2007 7:57:03 PM UTC by mk522***

mk522 said:
If you honestly think CP goes and builds a ride like TTD just for free publicity, you seriously need to take a marketing class.

Who said that anyways? I think the point being made with the "free marketing" you're speaking of is that most people talk about the record breakers, not the family rides. The fact that CP has so many record-breakers means that more people will talk about CP and those huge rides they conquered, and those listening (especially the teenager-young adults) will want to go to the park to ride "the big ones."

Where in my post did I say that CP doesn't consider free publicity important?

Okay, you didn't say exactly that, but you did say this...

mk522 said:
Having talked with the PR dept. on a few occasions and looking at how CP markets their rides, "free marketing" is hardly any reason to make any coaster a good business decision.

Strangely enough, the free marketing via word of mouth almost the point of building a record breaker, just read my above statement. Of course, you need an expensive and widespread ad campaign to let the public know about your shiny new rolly coaster on steroids. Once people know about the record-breaking coaster, the chatter among those who have tamed the beast and those who haven't (aka free publicity) can begin.

mk522 said:
Furthermore, stating that you have an MBA doesn't make a difference to me, because clearly you can't read posts in their entirety.

Ahh yes, the classic "you didn't read my post" argument. Well, he did read your post, and comprehended it differently from what you thought when you wrote it. Welcome to the world of online message boards.
*** Edited 6/30/2007 11:03:38 PM UTC by ramboozle***

Well you all knew I was going to post sooner or later.:)

Topics like this are posted multiple times every year and while some have mixed emotions and some are dead set on one decision, you cant help but look at the improvements that CP has made regarding Dragster. The big one is obviously downtime....something you can’t go without hearing just by mentioning Dragster. Does the frequent downtime give negative feed back? Of course.....but this isn't 2003 2004 or 2005 we're talking about hear! It obvious that it's downtime isn’t good for anyone who may be, say, impatient or has made a trip just to ride Dragster. That I can’t argue with. People get mad, it's expected and waiting a good deal then being turned down is a big downer.
While many have had this experience, souring their opinion about the ride. And while there's many of you on hear, who think badly of it for things like short downtime, duration, etc...I can't imagine what kind of impact Dragster has made (good and bad) and what it has gained the past 2 years (1 being this year). AND even during its shaky years, I still notice one thing from just about everyone on the midway (Dragster and Gemini), excitement, amazement, satisfaction...and just about everything else that makes a coaster a success.
Sure Dragster has and continues to hurt CP financially being the highest maintenance/problematic ride in the park. But despite the amount of negativity that surrounds the ride, it will continue to pull in vast crowds and continue to rise in rider ship.

JuggaLotus said:
TTD is a mediocre (at best) coaster. Its a great thrill ride, but it doesn't even deserve to be mentioned as a good coaster let alone great.

Funny because while I consider Dragster a FANTATIC thrill ride, I would never put Corkscrew, Disaster Transport (which is a given:)), Wicked Twister, etc...above Dragster in terms of coaster experience. Sure it's not the greatest "coaster" and it's obvious that there are many other coasters that surpass it in terms of overall coaster experience. Maverick for instance is a better "coaster" than Dragster with an almost equal "thrill" level. But Dragster is a coaster experience that is like none other (not counting Ka). The bottom line is that Dragster IS a coaster with a very enjoyably and thrilling experience and both above and below certain others. So while I'm not saying what you've said is wrong John, I will disagree with you and say that I believe Dragster does at least deserve to be considered a "good" coaster.

As Forest Gump said "That's all I have to say about that.":)

Well the inerview definetly answered the question for the reasoning behind the whole ride on camppaign but it didnt about dragster being bad.

dragster wasnt a bad decision, its an amazing coaster.. no question about it

I agree KcChief, the ride rocks as a thrill ride, and was a great decision on a number of levels.

However, the ride was a bad decision imo because of all the problems it had in the past, especially that first year. Four years after openings, we still have a thread following TTD's operation and day to day status! The good news is we care, but TTD and X have had big dark clouds over them since "day one" and no park wants that.

In one of those recent interviews Mr. Kinzel hoped the ride would turn around, and believe it's operational issues are the sole reason it was a bad decision. They took a risk and it didn't work out (unfortunately).

From someone with a fresh perspective because I just finally rode it...it totally rocked! It was def. quite a thrill that I'll be back on this weekend! I'm sure the down time has hurt CP's rep to some degree, but I'm surprised to hear Kinzel regrets his decision to add it to the park. I'm assuming the expense involved in upkeep is overwhelming, but... WOW, I LOVE the rush so it's worth it to me. Of course, I'm not paying the bill. :)

He did say he regrets the decision but also said he hoped the situation would reverse itself. DT is/was his worse decision because there is nothing you can do to improve the ride, since they've already tried retheming. With TTD at least, when it works reliably it can/does provide a unique thrill. I think his perception is centered around ridership.

^^^Dragster will always have hope in the future. There is, however, NO hope for Disaster Transport.:)

And that day to day thread is to mark uptime, not downtime. That's the reason I brought it back for a second year.

^ There is hope for Disaster Transport. I (and many others) hope they get rid of it. :)

I wouldnt really call it hope, I'd call it inevitability.:)

*** Edited 7/4/2007 12:51:28 AM UTC by TTD 120mph***

well put, adam.

Disaster Transport is exactly that. It's a disaster that needs to be transported out of CP as fast as possible. As far as TTD goes... there's only one place that thing is going...
and that's from 0-120 mph, up 420 feet, etc. all in the confines of that beautiful peninsula with the cedar trees.

Can someone tell me why ya hate DP. I thought it was cool inside that building and it's dark. What is so bad about that. to tame or not enough thrill? I can't imagined cp without it.

DP?? Its Disaster Transport (DT)