TTD worst business decision...

I did a little searching through the forums to try and find a similar topic and was unable to, but I'm sure this had to have been discussed before...

In an interview with Dick Kinzel, he openly talks a lot about Cedar Fair and his thoughts on the company and where it is going (I believe from 2005). In this interview he states that Magnum XL-200 is his favorite coaster and his best business decision. He also loves Millennium Force. However, he also comments that Disaster Transport was "laughed off" and Top Thrill Dragster was the "Worst decision he ever made"...Anyway, if you haven't had the pleasure...

http://www.podcastdirectory.com/podshows/142330

I have to imagine that TTD pulls in many more people to the park than actually ride it (think families where maybe only one person wants to ride but the rest are afraid to, such as my wife). I know TTD by itself has greatly increased the number of trips I've made to the park.

Kinzel talks about measuring their return on investment on number of riders. We all know that TTD is no where near the top of the number of rides given charts, but the ride is such a spectacle that you almost have to count people that sit in the bleachers and watch as riders. (Set up turnstiles for the bleachers? Of course not but you know what i mean.)

I always have to chuckle when I see the sign in Dragster's queue that says that the ride is estimated to give 2 million rides in it's inaugural season. Is it even possible for it to give that many rides even with 100% perfect uptime? My rough calculation comes up with 1.7 million with 1 minute intervals.

It bothers me when Kinzel talks about Dragster being a bad business decision because that implies that if he could do it over, he would choose not to put it in. Would CP be a better place without it? I don't think so. Would attendance be better if a different coaster was put in instead of TTD? Hard to say but I would guess no.
*** Edited 6/29/2007 12:19:18 PM UTC by TerraCoaster***

I do seem to remember Kinzel saying that Dragster was a "disappointment," but I don't ever remember him saying it was a bad buisness decision. I can only assume this referrs to the massive downtime it has had.

I remember Kinzel saying that Disaster Transport was his biggest mistake, and I believe him. (any further discussion belongs in a different thread, im just saying what Kinzle said was the worst decision/mistake)

^^I know he at least said it was "one of" the worst business decisions he has made. I think the reason for that is the massive downtime combined with fewer riders than expected even during uptime. But I think the "return on investment" measurement for Dragster needs to be a bit more subjective in this case.

TTD is a great coaster. No ride at CP causes more excitement in the park than it does. It creates a buzz when it's running and even when it's down, there is the anticipation for when it starts running again. TTD provides excitement for those who ride it and those who just watch it. People watch to see if it will get over the top. They stand next to the launch and watch the faces of riders as they wait for that green light. It is in a great location too. No other ride in the park draws a crowd like Dragster.

When you talk to people about CP whether you are at the park or at home, the first thing they ask is "Do you ride Dragster?" It arguably is CP's signature ride. TTD in my opinion has been a good addition. I think that it's amount of down time is why Mr. Kinzel may not think it was a good investment.

In addition to the $25 million initial cost, I'm sure TTD costs a pretty penny every year in maintenance. It wouldn't surprise me if that ride cost more than any of their others in terms of maintenance and upkeep. That alone could make it a bad decision.

TTD is a mediocre (at best) coaster. Its a great thrill ride, but it doesn't even deserve to be mentioned as a good coaster let alone great.

^ Word.

Wow, so many diverese opinions. As Og mentioned, I too remember hearing TTD was a "disapointment," which makes sense given it's down time. It's a great thrill ride and an amazing center piece within the park.

I would like to point out that as the blog mentioned, the Science Channel aired a show yesteday called "How They Do it." It was your basic coaster show garnering significant expose for the park. If CP did not have MF and/or TTD, SFGA certainly could have been picked for this segment, and thankfully they weren't.

If you base ROI on ridership, of course TTD will be lower on the list given it's lower capacity. I think CP a very attractive ROI given all the exposure they continue to recieve.

Sadly, if Kinzel bases ride "success" on ridership, DT will likely be here for quite a while.

^^The problem with that is that SFGA built Ka in response to learning that CP was building TTD. At least that's what Kinzel implied in a newspaper interview not long ago. So no TTD would have probably meant no Ka.

I think that part of the "bad business decision" with TTD has to do with the negative publicity it has brought the park. First you have all the news reports about how much it was down the first few seasons. Then add in bad word of mouth from guests who went to the park "just to ride Dragster" and were bitter about not getting to ride. The ride probably hurt their image (and attendance too) as much as it helped it, basically making for zero gain.

Its not been down the past 2 years like it was its first 2. Its running just about as good as any other coaster in the park. Its alot of peoples favorite caster also. (Its tied with maverick for my #1 spot) Also there is tons of people that come just to see it. They want to see how big and fast it really is. Tons of people that dont ride anything go to cedar point just to whatch it.

I think TTD is great so IMO it was not a bad decission.
*** Edited 6/29/2007 4:43:31 PM UTC by Your mom is to fat to ride TTD.***

Your mom is to fat to ride TTD. said:
Tons of people that dont ride anything go to cedar point just to whatch it.

That gets my vote for over-statement of the year.

The only reason i went to CP in the first place was because my dad came up to me and told me they built this really tall coaster in Ohio.

TTD may not be the reason i keep going back to the park but it's what drew me there in the first place.

When they first installed TTD I was skeptical, because I was a die-hard MF fan (which I still am today), but as I rode TTD more and more, I liked it more and more. It really is a fantastic ride and worth travelling to see/ride.

Happen to be in the same boat as Dr J, I came to the park because someone in my family heard about TTD. Now I go 3 times a year and stay on site. TTD isn't why I come back every year but is why I came in the first place. It just so happens I have hooked 10 others on the park as well. Just by my coming to the park I have given CP close to 10,000 bucks combined with all the people that have come with me.

Hell I'm not even in their target area.

Garret, he also said that he hoped his opinion of TTD would change. Don't know if it has, but he certainly appeared open to it given both Magnum and MF were his "best business decisions."

Terra, you're right on the money. TTD can't have the ridership as Magnum or MF, but the free publicity TTD has garnered has been significant.

When I first went to the park it was becaouse of TTD. I ended up comming back five or six times a year. The ride might not be the best in the park, but it is by far the most known.

I live in Boston and flew to CP by myself in 1989 just to ride Magnum. I loved the experience so much, I've been visiting at least once a year every year since. On three seperate years, I even bought a season pass.