Top Thrill Dragster 2022 Status

That is such a delusional pipe dream, and I couldn’t see them justifying the cost, time, or space.

No no you can't say things like that. Lest you be accused of stifling someone's opinion that doesn't coincide with the Old Guard around here.

The constraints of reality and logic are hardly the concern of a significant portion of people these days.

e x i t english:

time

There simply isn't enough time to get a project like this done.

Jeff:
reality and logic

As far as reality- I don't see how something like this is "technically" possible. They could (in theory) do exactly that. (Reality and I are old friends )

As far as Logic (I prefer reason)- It seems HIGHLY unlikely that Cedar Point is going to 1. Spend that much money on the project. 2. This new layout for TTD would require a lot of space constraints (new line would go where? lining up the launch and top hat, more coaster= more causes for issues, what if a train rolls back off the top hat- that would make for the worst nightmare in park operations).

While I think this concept is really cool and I also don't think it will happen.

Jeff:

Hulk was open almost every day, year after year. It reached the end of its service life in part because it was washboarding in certain places like a poorly maintained wooden coaster.

Out of curiosity, do you know if the Florida environment was a contributing factor at all on top of the ride being open almost 24/7, or would it have been a little bit of both?

I've heard very similar stories about the Las Vegas area steel coasters aging horribly, particularly Desperado and Manhattan Express, and those seem like they'd be in a very similar situation, albeit with dry desert heat and presumably a lot more direct sunlight versus Florida humidity.

That would be an interesting study. The effects of temperature changes, sun exposure, and weather on metal coaster track.

Desperado and Manhattan Express have been garbage since day one. I reckon time hasn’t been very kind either.

I'm sure it's just sheer hours. Conservatively, running ten hours a day (likely more because of after-hours events, which are almost nightly at times), a ride is going to run 3,650 hours a year. Cedar Point is open 148 days next year, and the late season days aren't full days. Best case is 1,480 hours, then full overhauls in between. The "environment" here is no worse than Sandusky in the summer, and it never swings the other way to brutal freezing temperatures.

^^ Just posting that Manhattan Express in Vegas was a very fun ride IMO. I rode it several times living there in the late 90's. The layout was fun and the view and atmosphere at night was truly awesome.

Much like my ex-wife. It hasn't aged well.

Master D is a fan of Manhurtin' Express? Very much the epitome of the Japanese roller coaster aesthetic: Try Once, Get Off. Honestly, if you liked that piece of junk, you just might have enjoyed Son of Beast, a ride with absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Or maybe even the P-Clone in its final seasons.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

e x i t english:

That is such a delusional pipe dream, and I couldn’t see them justifying the cost, time, or space.

I think that is a bit hyperbolic. Ill try to adress each point.

1. Cost- A new rollercoaster these days costs 20-45 million dollars. Cedar Point has had no issue with dropping that kind of money on attractions. I would estimate the cost actually being far less, because the tower and tophat are already built. What im pitching is a 15-20 million dollar addition to dragster. Not that crazy.
2. Time- Well again, its not any more time than it would be to build a new rollercoaster, which they do all the time. I dont anticipate this being ready in 2023. I think were slated for a 2024 reopening anyway.
3. Space- Earlier in the thread I took a same scale satellite image of dragster and showed you could almost fit the entire Gatekeeper layout inside of Dragsters massive, empty, open infield. I think some people are misunderstanding my idea here. Im saying a small, compact layout, quick launched out and back in the Dragster infield with an inversion or 2, helix and some bunny hills... That rolls into a Maverick esque mid-course LSM launch into the tower. Thats it, no pie in the sky record breaking length, no inversion records, speed records... Im saying a COMPACT layout slightly bigger than what you can put in a mall.. that flows into a launch.

How is this justified?

A: Revitalizes Dragster, completely reimagined. New theme, additonal layout, its akmost like a whole new coaster.

B: Same cost as the average coaster installation.

C: Improves on the already well renowned Dragster experience.

D: Most importantly... Adds multiple block zones and allows for more than 1 train on the layout at a time. DRASTICALLY improves capacity. Nearly doubles or triples it.

E: Reliability, LSM launches replace the hydraulics.

NextGen89:

rolls into a Maverick esque mid-course LSM launch into the tower. Thats it, no pie in the sky record breaking length, no inversion records, speed records... Im saying a COMPACT layout slightly bigger than what you can put in a mall.. that flows into a launch.

LSM, by all accounts, requires more launch length compared to hydraulic to achieve the same speed. So that means the LSM launched TTD will require every last inch of the launch track it did previously, plus some additional track. So how do you squeeze in a lift hill approach, which on Maverick is ~70', in the zero feet available with TTD?

All of the assumptions about length of an LSM run needed are assuming that the technology hasn't changed and that all variables remain constant. That's a lot of assuming.

Sure, but a considerably lesser amount of assuming compared to assuming you could squeeze Maverick's lift hill in there.

Alluding to what Jeff mentioned above, Intamin's new product (the "vertical launch") claims to have the strongest launch on the market.

Using LSMs.

That would certainly imply that all that math done to figure out how much track would be needed using older LSMs is not really accurate.

I don't recall anyone reporting on if Intamin revealed any details on how much more powerful they are, or what data they had to claim having the "strongest" launch from IAAPA in Orlando. Or maybe it's just words with no data to back them up.

Anytime there is a lack of data, I put no faith in marketing terms like "best," "strongest," etc. And even granting that Intamin's are the "strongest" they may only be 5% stronger for all we know.

What does 'strong' even mean in this context?

Literally nothing. Strength is a material property, which is why in this context it's a meaningless marketing term like "tastiest" or softest."

Consider also that there are other ways to innovate besides more powerful stators and magnets. I understand that some company announced at IAAPA that they've come up with the *lightest* coaster chassis of any manufacturer doing launched coasters. The passenger weight is still the biggest part of the equation, but if you can reduce the mass of the train, you can increase the amount of acceleration you can get with a given amount of force.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Valid point. Although that raises a thought. Quicker acceleration with reduced mass doesn’t help the train clear the tower. Wiffle vs baseball.