Top Thrill Dragster 2022 Status

Circling back to the wood vs metal thing. I was being a little over critical. Racer and Beast have gone from filler rides to must rides. Forty plus year old woodies. When maintained and loved, they deserve all the praise.

in that respect I’d love to see Blue Steak get the full “Ghost Rider” treatment and a new custom creation from the The Gravity Group. I support y’alls wooden dreams.

oh don't get me wrong, Blue Streak is one of my favorites at CP, and the Beast might just be in my top 10 favorite coasters.

The biggest issue with Blue Streak is the incredibly tight squeeze getting in those trains. I never have (or see) the issues on other rides that have PTC orange bars and seat belts when compared with Blue Streak.

It also feels like the trains are just too heavy for the relatively slow/gentle course by the way it rides.

Frog Hopper King:

ok, I mean I thought half of this conversation was attempting to think not like an enthusiast but from the common person going to Cedar Point. From now on instead of using GP, ill use JS.

We are all common people going to CP, especially in the eyes of CP. There might be "enthusiast" events from time to time, but they still wouldn't do those if they didn't make them money in some form.

Cartwright:

The biggest issue with Blue Streak is the incredibly tight squeeze getting in those trains.

A lesser big issue is the proximity to the dumpsters. Ride it often enough on a hot summer day and you learn where to hold your breath. I think I rode Blue Streak more this fall season than all summer long though, mostly due to its (and Valravn nearby) walk on fast lanes.

Jeff:

Cedar Pointer:

The market has been moving away from wood coasters for years.

Again, the companies building wood coasters would be shocked to hear this.

A few select firms that specialize in a product is not indicative to the market as a whole. A product that is in the “decline” phase of the product life cycle can still produce a profit for some. Whoever, you will not see most coaster manufacturers start to build wooden coasters. I know people that built Shivering Timbers and they are currently building wooden decks now.

Cartwright:
The biggest issue with Blue Streak is the incredibly tight squeeze getting in those trains. I never have (or see) the issues on other rides that have PTC orange bars and seat belts when compared with Blue Streak.

My understanding is that when PTC started putting seat dividers into their trains, they made the trains a couple of inches wider. Presumably the Blue Streak is still running with its original trains, which did not have seat dividers until 1996. Add to that, the fixed end of the seat belt is a couple of inches shorter than the seat divider, making it hard to fasten and even harder to unfasten.
Actually getting in isn’t such a difficult thing; the trick is to pull the belt out fully, fasten it around you, THEN sit down. That’s right, fasten the seat belt BEFORE sitting down.

—Dave Althoff, Jr.

e x i t english:

We are all common people going to CP, especially in the eyes of CP. There might be "enthusiast" events from time to time, but they still wouldn't do those if they didn't make them money in some form.

You have a good point that for CP all people are considered "general public" or "common people". Cedar Point doesn't check for ACE cards at the entrance. However, in the van diagram of CP guests I think it's fair to say that there is general public (all those who attend), and within that group as a subset CP fans. And within that group, enthusiasts. Not every person who attends cedar point has an account here on Point Buzz, it can be inferred that if you are reading/posting here that you are not just the "general attendees" of the park. You're a fan. All three of those groups want and expect different things from the park.
When planning future expansion and additions cedar point looks to please the biggest group of those attendees, that being the "general public" not just the die-hard fans. (Sometimes what the GP and the fans want intersect, IE Steel Vengeance, sometimes they don't).

Ever since I have been a reader/poster on PB I have seen people make the distinction between the general public and super fans/enthusiasts. I don't understand why you are making a distinction against that now. It feels like you are just wanting to disagree.

Who cares if he dislikes the term? I certainly don't and it won't hinder my use of it.

Frog Hopper King:

It feels like you are just wanting to disagree.

That’s not true

"I know people that built Shivering Timbers and they are currently building wooden decks now."

People still build decks out of wood????

Cedar Pointer:

I know people that built Shivering Timbers and they are currently building wooden decks now.

And I know people that worked at, managed, landscaped, helped design, and cared for an amusement park in Aurora, Ohio. They are all working elsewhere now out of the industry. That doesn't mean there isn't demand for amusement parks.

Cedar Pointer:

A few select firms that specialize in a product is not indicative to the market as a whole. A product that is in the “decline” phase of the product life cycle can still produce a profit for some...

Wooden coasters being "in decline" is, quite simply, not supported by the data. Going back to ~1997, the average number of woodies built (per RCDB) is ~4/year. Between 2006 and 2019 (so, modern-ish wood coaster era to pre-pandemic, when coaster cap ex in general declined), the average is ~4/year.

Yes, woodies are a niche product, but they are not some "in decline" based on the data.

Frog Hopper King:

Then why of the 96 new coasters being built next year is only one of them a wooden coaster? Seems like the overwhelming data disproves your anecdote. right?

See above regarding "data."

Also, Ford prints money selling ~700,000 F-Series trucks every year, and still make money selling fewer than half that number of Escapes and a far lower per-vehicle margin. Or, put another way, most of the vehicles they sell are white, black, or silver, but they still produce cars in more exotic colors even though those are far less popular.

That something is a niche or less-popular product doesn't mean that product isn't important to the overall portfolio.

Data? Impossible! As a percentage wood coasters have never been dominant, and yet, they still build a few (I'm sorry, about 4 on average) every year.

Cedar Pointer:

I know people that built Shivering Timbers and they are currently building wooden decks now.

You may know carpenters who worked on the ride, cool, but I know the guys who designed it, and they're still quite employed, innovating and profitable.

I have no problem with anyone here saying that most of the people that they talk to don't like wooden coasters. All good there, but when you assume that means that it applies to the majority of park guests, well, your logic is just skewed. Not even skewed, but just flat out wrong. Even if you talked to thousands of people, that sample is still to small to make the generalization that most park guests don't like woodies.

And now my 2 cents. I prefer to steel to wood. Am I in the majority or the minority? Who knows, and who cares. Is my life negatively affected if CP builds a wooden coaster in the future? Nope, not at all.

I've worked with a fair share of non-enthusiast park guests over the years with regards to their thoughts and ideas and assumptions about roller coasters. I would say that a common (and logical) belief is that what's associated with "rough and uncomfortable" is the age of the ride, not the material its made from. That is, "if it's old, it's going to be rough".

Makes sense.

Wooden coasters will always have their place. Kings Dominion just announced that Grizzly is getting a much-needed restoration.

I like a good woodie but it has to give me some thrills or cool environment. The Beast for example isn't crazy for thrills but the layout is damn cool especially at night. Mystic Timbers on the other hand is incredible for the thrill factor. Blue Streak is just fun but I do agree the new restraints took a little bit of that fun factor for me away. I still ride it because of its nostalgia and it was my first ever coaster. Unlike The Beast and Mystic I do not go out of my way to ride Blue Streak.

Bottom line is I just want a good coaster ride period at the end of the day. Steel or wood just give me a good ride!

Blue Streak hasn't been tracking all that great in the past few years. The shuffling is getting pretty bad. I hope they are able to consult with Gravity Group and Kings Island carpentering staff to do some refurbs like they did on Racer and Beast. The difference on Racer before and after the work is like night and day. I always though Blue Streak was the better of the classic wood coasters since it's a little more intense, but to me Racer is now the superior coaster.

All 3 wood coaster at KI are well maintained and very popular. It can work.

I rode The Beast this year after the refurb and it was way better. Much more pleasant ride for sure.

Jeff:

Data? Impossible! As a percentage wood coasters have never been dominant, and yet, they still build a few (I'm sorry, about 4 on average) every year.

... before they invented steel coasters there were only wooden coasters and then after the innovation of the steel coaster, there has been a decline of wooden coasters to steel. Right? yes, there are 4 on average built per year, but compare that number to the full amount of roller coasters being built per year and steel easily takes the cake.

I think what Cedar Pointer and I are attempting to communicate is that it seems that for many people (not all) there is a misconception that a wooden coaster automatically means a rough ride. Kevin brings up an excellent point that age of a coaster is another factor in people's perception of roughness. There sure is a Niche in the market for Wooden coasters, however as already stated it takes a special team to ensure that the ride stays well-managed. (KI has a great team to do this). Disney and Universal have never built a wooden coaster throughout their years of running and maintaining all their theme parks. Not once. I am going to guess (and I am guessing here) that they either 1. Don't want to do all the upkeep on wooden coasters or 2. see it as too much of a gamble for the audience that they are reaching.

Tennessee_CP_Fan:
Even if you talked to thousands of people, that sample is still to small to make the generalization that most park guests don't like woodies.

My guess of what people perceive of wooden coasters is not based on what people have personally said to me. It's that most operating coasters (and future builds) right now are steel coasters. This could show us that parks have been strategically moving toward steel and away from wooden coasters. Now, that doesn't change the fact that sometimes parks look to build a wooden coaster to add to their ride portfolio. Wooden coasters after all do offer a completely different ride experience. (and to my knowledge they last longer too, someone correct me on that if it's not true).

We can for sure get back on to top thrill dragster. This was a weird side quest I didn't expect. I would love to sit down and talk with someone from Cedar Point and ask why they haven't added a new wooden coaster since 1991.

Back to TTD, the webcam that was pointing to the tower is now pointing to Sandusky. My guess is that they have started work on the tower whether that be removing the track or repainting or converting it to a wooden coaster. ;) now that would be re-imagined for sure.