This is the year when gas prices WILL affect CP attendance

I can't agree with the points being made about "go buy a hybrid..blah blah blah"

That doesn't solve the overall problem that gas, something that, no matter what you will use, you must use, and you can't live without, can continue to go up in price without any intervention or capping from the government.

If hybrids were truly a solution, than why isn't everyone driving one? Because they're ignorant? No. Hybrids haven't exactly caught on because lets face it, most people are driving cars that they are: still paying on, have come to rely on, or have some useful need for it and therefore are in no position to switch.

I will agree that there are those that drive for style alone, and yes, there's stupidity there, but you can't change that.

Until car companies are forced to look at making hybrid a standard, than the market isn't going anywhere as far as hybrid sales. Not to mention their safety ratings don't always match up to what many other vehicles can do, which is an important factor for families.

People will drive what they want, and the question of whether they're right or wrong for complaining is not for any one person to determine. We all expected gas to go up, but none of us can continue to deal with it with gritted teeth.

Why do people focus in on one technology? That's so annoying. Go hybrid, go diesel, go solar... whatever... just don't be a moron and buy a something that gets teens for fuel efficiency and wonder why higher demand leads to higher prices. It's not like there's some voodoo going on here with fuel prices. Factor in the weak-ass dollar and frankly you've got another problem. As someone else said, if they decide to start trading oil in Euros, we're screwed.

Go diesel??!!??

You must have lost your mind. While diesel engines may get better mileage than gas, they have a pretty significant upfront cost compared to a gas vehicle as well as costing more to repair. Not to mention diesel is almost a DOLLAR more a gallon now than gas.

Yeah, no thanks.

I'm 110% certain that he wasn't saying to go diesel. It looked to me like he just clustered together what everyone else is saying to do. But yeah, diesel is up to $4.19 at some stations around me. Talk about crazy. Isn't diesel a bi-product of making gasoline?

I realize he wasn't saying to specifically go with a diesel but it was used as an example of a better alternative to gasoline. My point was, why should I go spend more on a diesel vehicle, more to fuel it and more to repair it to drive the cost of gasoline down so other people can benefit from it?

Because you get to plug it in when it gets cold, that's why!

You should read up on the subject. You're wrong in every way. There's a story every other month in Wired about this stuff. I'm not a huge fan myself, but Honda has been testing a Civic diesel in the US that gets 55 mpg highway, mid 30's city. Not a huge leap, and only on pace with similar hybrids, but it's still an improvement. There is no "significant up front cost" when you're working on an economy of scale. The challenge of cost has less to do with the technology and more to do with supply chain efficiencies and infrastructure.

"Wrong in every way"?

Except that I said it costs more to repair a diesel vehicle....and it does.

....that the fuel costs more....and it does.

....and they DO cost more up front than their gas counterparts. At least in the truck world, which is where I care. As an example, it costs $8000 more to put a V8 diesel motor in a Ford truck then a V8 gas engine. It's over $6000 more in a Dodge. The only reason I'd even consider one is the torque produced compared to a gas engine.

Yeah, because the economy of scale isn't there in the US market. Diesel cars already out-sell petrol in Europe. Ford pickups in the US are not the center of the universe.

Nothing with diesel in it, other than maybe farm tractors, are the center of the universe in the US.

Yet, you suggest going and buying one. I was merely siting reasons why I wouldn't consider it.

Hey, Jerry, what kind of mileage do you get in your DeVille?

There's a massive stereotype that big vehicle = low MPG and it simply isn't the case anymore. My parents' Caddi' is the biggest model they built that model year and it gets more than 30 MPG on the highway.

And yeah, my '94 Crown Victoria gets better mileage than my '90 Taurus did, but is slightly worse than my '95 Taurus was. But the real eye opener came when I rented a Chevy Cobalt down in Florida and got about 20 MPG for a week in a car that was so cramped that I had to open the window just to keep from accidentally smashing it with my elbow. Driving to Cedar Point in my CV, I get about 24 MPG!

Could I do better? Sure. And my next car will hopefully get better mileage, but I spend enough time behind the wheel that I can't trade off on comfort. But for the moment I can put an awful lot of expensive gas into the CV and still save money over having to come up with a car payment!

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Loopy said:
At least in the truck world, which is where I care.

I'd recommend moving to a new world. Perhaps Earth? ;)

Take a look at how much cash Ford & GM lost (as was pointed out - most cash lost for any company, ever), and take notice of their respective vehicle lineups. See how truck-heavy they are compared with... everyone other company on Earth? Hell, even Chrysler LLC spanked them, to say nothing of Toyota & Honda (and the like). You don't think there's a reason for that?

I didn't suggest anyone buy a diesel. Did I not say that I wasn't personally an advocate? My only point was that it is an alternative that a lot of people are considering.

Our culture is so f'd up in that everyone knows what the problem is, and is completely unwilling to do anything about it. That's the American way!

Well, us decreasing our demand won't necessarily decrease prices though. There's still India and China driving demand up, and with a global economy, they will have a bigger impact on prices than our reduction in demand.

Considering our per capita usage compared with theirs (and everyone else's), I don't believe its true that they would have a bigger impact.

Per capita maybe (for now), but individually, they outnumber us 3-1 (at least) 6 or 7-1 combined, so there is a LOT of usage, and growing, there.

The per capita consumption in China is "11 times below ours", and they outnumber us by a factor of only 4-1. That would indicate they have a long way to go, in that they'd have to increase their consumption 3 times over to approach how much we use.

So I would disagree with your assertion that our reduction would be offset by their increased consumption. That is unless they start driving 2+ ton hunks of steel around, like so many jackassy, self centered Americans do.

I don't mean to "spark" up the diesel argument again, but no one mentioned durability in the argument for diesels. My dad has a Chevy 2500 with 300,000 miles on it...still going strong. Try that with a gas engine, and his maintenance costs aren't anymore than a gasoline engine at that mileage.

^^ - then I guess I need to do some more research. Thanks for the info.

My 2000 Saturn SL1 gets 32 MPG on the freeway, 28 MPG on just regular roads. Not even at 50 thousand yet and running strong. Not bad for a regular vehicle. (which I'm taking this year on every trip to Cedar Point, can't beat the milage).