The Rougarou Files 2: Construction

Wednesday, December 10, 2014 10:36 AM
Jeff's avatar

Having one station on GateKeeper does not materially affect the capacity of the ride in any way.


Jeff - Advocate of Great Great Tunnels™ - Co-Publisher - PointBuzz - CoasterBuzz - Blog - Music

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Wednesday, December 10, 2014 10:53 AM

No, what they need is to consistently be near or at interval.

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Wednesday, December 10, 2014 11:32 AM
djDaemon's avatar

Jeff said:

Having one station on GateKeeper does not materially affect the capacity of the ride in any way.

That can't be true, can it?

The optimum dispatch cadence would have one train nearing the crest of the lift as the running train is exiting the MCBR. In my experience, it's rare that they hit that cadence, almost certainly in some cases because they couldn't get folks loaded quicly enough. And it's a safe bet that if they hadn't had to wait for returning riders to exit the train, they could have loaded the train more quickly.

I think it's more accurate to say that it would have cost a certain amount of money to increase capacity, and the park didn't feel the ROI was worth it.


Brandon

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Wednesday, December 10, 2014 12:33 PM
Pete's avatar

Usually the length of time a train is stopped outside of the station is not enough time to unload if that position was actually an unload station.

Having an unload station for Gatekeeper would actually hurt capacity as it takes longer to stop the train, unload and move to load than the very short time it takes guests to unload during the simultaneous unload and load procedure. Maybe the trains wouldn't be stacked, but overall cycle time would increase meaning less riders per hour.


I'd rather be in my boat with a drink on the rocks,
than in the drink with a boat on the rocks.

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Wednesday, December 10, 2014 12:55 PM
djDaemon's avatar

Pete said:

Having an unload station for Gatekeeper would actually hurt capacity as it takes longer to stop the train, unload and move to load than the very short time it takes guests to unload during the simultaneous unload and load procedure. Maybe the trains wouldn't be stacked, but overall cycle time would increase meaning less riders per hour.

But the train is already stopped outside the station, waiting for the downtrack train to load and dispatch. And in my experience, that happens far more often than not.

When the train rolls into the brakes, there's already a time cost to slow, park, and eventually move the train. So the net time cost would be whatever time it takes for unloading passengers to clear the station so the train can be safely moved forward. So I suppose if that time is greater than the stacked time, then it would be correct that they have the optimal setup now.

I see what you're saying, but I just don't agree with the sentiment that there's literally no possible way they could increase capacity on GK. There is a way, it's just that there's a cost associated with increasing capacity.


Brandon

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Wednesday, December 10, 2014 1:49 PM
Jeff's avatar

djDaemon said:

That can't be true, can it?

The optimum dispatch cadence would have one train nearing the crest of the lift as the running train is exiting the MCBR.

I've seen it consistently close to that. Another station wouldn't improve that without another train, and at that point you're trying to win a few seconds per interval that might get you another train load per hour. If guests were robots that paid attention, maybe that would be worth it, but since they're not, I don't think it is.


Jeff - Advocate of Great Great Tunnels™ - Co-Publisher - PointBuzz - CoasterBuzz - Blog - Music

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Wednesday, December 10, 2014 8:12 PM

I'll see your anecdotal evidence and raise you one. I'm quite often sitting in my train outside the station, watching the 2nd train in front of me (which quickly becomes the train behind me) cresting the hill, while I'm still watching offloading and oncoming riders bump into each other.

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Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:04 PM
Thabto's avatar

Gatekeeper is bad for stacking. Most times I see all 3 trains sitting at the station and in the brakes behind it.


Brian
Valravn Rides: 23| Steel Vengeance Rides: 23| Dragster Rollbacks: 1
2020 Visits: 2 Next Visit: Don't know yet

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Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:09 PM
Jeff's avatar

Either the 2014 crew was terrible, or you guys live in an alternate universe.


Jeff - Advocate of Great Great Tunnels™ - Co-Publisher - PointBuzz - CoasterBuzz - Blog - Music

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Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:13 PM

They don't double stack often that I saw. Single stacking, sure, but not long enough for unloading.

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Wednesday, December 10, 2014 11:31 PM

Scottyf said:

...watching offloading and oncoming riders bump into each other.

It would help if the station was designed with additional exits in the front of the station (front four rows exit to the front, rear four to the back).

That being said, I have never waited for more than twelve or so minutes for Gatekeeper.

Hopefully Tony will have Rougarou files 3 out soon, it would be nice to get back on subject.

Last edited by jscll, Wednesday, December 10, 2014 11:31 PM
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Thursday, December 11, 2014 8:25 AM
djDaemon's avatar

Jeff said:

Either the 2014 crew was terrible, or you guys live in an alternate universe.

The 2014 crew was, in my experience, a significant downgrade from the previous year.

Now, that's not to say the ride had long waits, but compared to 2013 I certainly saw a lot more stacking and far more instances of the third train coming into the brakes before the first train was even on the lift hill. In most cases, the first train would be leaving the station just as the third train entered the brake run.


Brandon

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Thursday, December 11, 2014 9:30 AM

Agreed. The 2014 crew definitely seemed slower on more or less every visit.

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Thursday, December 11, 2014 12:40 PM

If this becomes the norm do you think CP would drop to 2 train operation? That 3rd train sitting on the brake run doesn't do much for capacity, does it?


But then again, what do I know?
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Thursday, December 11, 2014 1:29 PM
Thabto's avatar

MF stacks and I don't see them dropping down to only 2 trains. WIth MF, a train can't be dispatched until the previous one returns to the station because there is no MCBR on MF. And GK can't dispatch until the previous train clears the MCBR, which is almost toward the end. I think a better crew on GK would help the stacking.


Brian
Valravn Rides: 23| Steel Vengeance Rides: 23| Dragster Rollbacks: 1
2020 Visits: 2 Next Visit: Don't know yet

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Thursday, December 11, 2014 2:02 PM
djDaemon's avatar

Thabto said:

WIth MF, a train can't be dispatched until the previous one returns to the station because there is no MCBR on MF.

That's actually not accurate. Train 1 can and is very often dispatched before Train 3 returns to the station. Train 1 simply won't crest the lift until Train 3 is beyond the brake run. This is why you'll notice the lift speeding up at some point during your ascent. That's a result of Train 3 moving beyond the brake run.

Similarly, GK can dispatch Train 1 before Train 3 passes the MCBR. It's just that Train 1 cannot crest the lift until the MCBR is clear.

Last edited by djDaemon, Thursday, December 11, 2014 2:04 PM

Brandon

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Thursday, December 11, 2014 2:13 PM

The way I've seen Millennium run these days, they will not dispatch Train A from the station until train C has made it back into the end course brakes. They won't even send the train up the hill. Dragster is similar, except they seem to wait an excessive amount of time after the previous set of trains returns to dispatch, even though everyone is checked and ops are standing in wait. Just my observations..

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Thursday, December 11, 2014 2:23 PM
djDaemon's avatar

I'm pretty close to absolutely certain that they dispatched us a few times this season in the way I've described. It wouldn't make sense for them to not do so, as it would hurt capacity quite a bit to constantly and purposely delay dispatch that way.


Brandon

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Thursday, December 11, 2014 2:31 PM
Thabto's avatar

Train 3 reaching the end brakes is close enough to reaching the station. If MF was designed with an MCBR, I'm sure the interval would be shorter..


Brian
Valravn Rides: 23| Steel Vengeance Rides: 23| Dragster Rollbacks: 1
2020 Visits: 2 Next Visit: Don't know yet

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Thursday, December 11, 2014 2:38 PM

I don't understand why, but that's how it was almost every time. There were a few times they seemed to be on the ball for interval but not often. That's not to say that it didn't happen when I wasn't there, though.

Millennium should, in theory, have blocks thusly. Unload, load, lift, course (crest drop through holding brakes outside unload). Therefore, they should be able to dispatch from load to lift while a train is finishing the course. The lift would just slow down or stop if the previous train hadn't yet made it to unload. That is not how it seems to operate but it's theoretically possible.

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